Re: fighter 30?
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:48 pm
so true.. didn't even think of that. and i have a character that uses them LOLchad878262 wrote: Keen wands are cheap. Higher will saves are better. What feat would you replace?
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fighter 30?
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Re: fighter 30?
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:06 pm
Here's another one, this one a bit less focused in order to be able to change roles. IPA, ICE, IKD, Improved Disarm all in one. Deadly Defense would be a good candidate to replace Iron Will if you are going to party up and don't need to worry too much about high will saves. Falchion might be a good replacement for Scimitar for better ID results, but I stayed with Scimitar to allow for a shield without Monkey Grip.
http://nwn2db.com/build/?261234
http://nwn2db.com/build/?261234
Re: fighter 30?
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:19 pm
i guess i misunderstood something that i have see in these builds. i thought there was a +12 cap on any ability including bonuses. a plus three item would put your builds over the +12 strength cap. it is most likely that i am incorrect and will proceed to kick myself continuously for all my current builds i run with that notion in consideration.
Re: fighter 30?
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:22 pm
Stats can go up to 50. the +12 is Enhancement Cap to an ability, such as from a Barbarians Epic Rage enhancement to STR. So theoretically if you could make a build with 38 STR the Barbarians Epic Rage would make you hit the hard cap of 50 for STR.aaron22 wrote:i guess i misunderstood something that i have see in these builds. i thought there was a +12 cap on any ability including bonuses. a plus three item would put your builds over the +12 strength cap. it is most likely that i am incorrect and will proceed to kick myself continuously for all my current builds i run with that notion in consideration.
Re: fighter 30?
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:29 pm
what applies to the +12 enchantment cap?
Re: fighter 30?
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:33 pm
Not much on BG... Barbarian Rage is really it, but if you were to play MoTB I think there was an item or 2 that gave +10 or +12 to an ability. Remember, we have a lower magic world here than what the engine allows for (thank god!)
Re: fighter 30?
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:49 pm
http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Strength_(domain) is another way of doing it, go full cleric and full STR, activate divine strength.
Base STR of 35 (with +2 STR race), can get 47 STR for a few rounds.
Base STR of 35 (with +2 STR race), can get 47 STR for a few rounds.
Re: fighter 30?
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:50 am
One more for the pile. This is a Fighter 30 focused on Two Weapon Fighting. Damage will be lower and the feat requirements for TWF line has negatively impacted Will saves, but AB is solid as is AC. Damage comes from Combat Insight, Epic Weapon Specialization/Melee Mastery, Deadly Defense so would look something like:
1-6 + 4 (EB) + 1-4 (DD) + 6 (EWS) + 2 (MM) = 14-22 + any addition damage from weapon enchantments. However, you are likely to land a decent amount of hits each round due to high AB. I put down shortswords as the weapon, but handaxes or kukri's are probably better since slashing is resisted a bit less often than piercing. Maces would be an option too as would flails since we have offhand flails on the server, but this would need testing as I am not sure if the off hand flails are actually treated as Shortswords or something.
http://nwn2db.com/build/?261251
In any case, my opinion is a TWF build really needs to have sneak attack or be STR based from Ranger 21, so by no means would I endorse this build over the other two I posted. However, most of what is in this build could be grabbed by taking ~12-14 levels of fighter. Going 16 Rogue with Feint would allow for Epic Dodge, Epic Precision and Expose Weakness which would be much stronger, in addition to having 8d6 sneak dice and with haste you would have 13 APR. Adding in 3 SD for HiPS would further improve the build at the cost of 1 SA dice and, more importantly, dropping to BAB 25 and thus 10 APR instead of 12. This is all, of course off topic for Fighter 30, but couldn't help point out why the concept itself is somewhat flawed. No matter what you can do with getting tons of feats from Fighter levels, there is simply so much more you can do by mixing in other classes to enhance the base you are putting together with your feats from fighter levels.
1-6 + 4 (EB) + 1-4 (DD) + 6 (EWS) + 2 (MM) = 14-22 + any addition damage from weapon enchantments. However, you are likely to land a decent amount of hits each round due to high AB. I put down shortswords as the weapon, but handaxes or kukri's are probably better since slashing is resisted a bit less often than piercing. Maces would be an option too as would flails since we have offhand flails on the server, but this would need testing as I am not sure if the off hand flails are actually treated as Shortswords or something.
http://nwn2db.com/build/?261251
In any case, my opinion is a TWF build really needs to have sneak attack or be STR based from Ranger 21, so by no means would I endorse this build over the other two I posted. However, most of what is in this build could be grabbed by taking ~12-14 levels of fighter. Going 16 Rogue with Feint would allow for Epic Dodge, Epic Precision and Expose Weakness which would be much stronger, in addition to having 8d6 sneak dice and with haste you would have 13 APR. Adding in 3 SD for HiPS would further improve the build at the cost of 1 SA dice and, more importantly, dropping to BAB 25 and thus 10 APR instead of 12. This is all, of course off topic for Fighter 30, but couldn't help point out why the concept itself is somewhat flawed. No matter what you can do with getting tons of feats from Fighter levels, there is simply so much more you can do by mixing in other classes to enhance the base you are putting together with your feats from fighter levels.
Re: fighter 30?
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:44 pm
we have been having alot of talk regarding the viability of classes and one of the four original classes is a bit behind what would be a wizzy 30 rogue 30 or cleric 30. i wanted to have some of our best try to do something with it and i see one build that looks like it might be competitive. essentially fighter has become a PrC as taking 30 is unwise. not really sure i want something done, because it does bring something unique to many builds. extra feats w/ high AB and HO/Tower proficiency. but does point out that something doesnt have to be amazing to 30 to make it useful. thank you guys for helping me.
Re: fighter 30?
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:00 pm
I think Mallore and a few others would disagree that Rogue 30 is ahead of Fighter. 
D&D is not a balanced game. Some servers have +12 Stat boosts equipment, +8 EB armors and weapons, full immunity items, etc. which tends to elevate non-casters above casters, making builds like the Kaze-no-Kama monk into amazing destructive forces. Here, the Kaze is on the lower end of the power scale because equipment doesn't exist that allows a Kaze to shine. Our server is balanced to the other end of the spectrum where casters are simply better (even at melee) then melee builds. While it is frustrating for some of us, this actually mirrors what the PnP game is set up to do (at obviously lower power levels). While a Wizard can buff themselves to be a better tank than a fighter and a Cleric can be a better tank AND melee damage dealer than the fighter, where a fighter really shines is if that Cleric and Wizard give him those buffs!
Unfortunately this being an online game a Fighter can't really count on having a friendly wizard/cleric around to buff him and this is where 'builds' become so much more important in online gaming. Mixing in Dwarven Defender/Cleric/Rogue (for instance) can in a very large way turn that fighter in to a better tank than the Eldritch Knight while doing a bit more damage and being just as self sufficient. So you're right, Fighter 30 or Rogue 30 are not as viable as a Wiz30 (possibly the best DC caster one can build) or Cle30 (with Domains can get Expose Weakness or other perks without multi-classing, unlike FvS). However, by mixing in other classes or PRCs you can certainly build a more than viable Fighter or Rogue Archetype character. That said, I think we have shown that F30 is certainly viable, and Rogue 30 is as well (though in my opinion less so than the fighter because, HiPS). They are not going to be Powerbuilds, they are going to be better off partying up and solo will be a bit difficult, I would say they are somewhere just below the middle tier of builds, but doesn't mean they can't be fun to play and, in a party they would have plenty to contribute. In a party HiPS is less important and the R30 will have a ton of skills as well as extra feats to play with, the fighter will be solid on the front lines and do just fine as well, contributing with being able to tank, control (knockdown, disarm, etc.) and deal decent and consistent damage.
D&D is not a balanced game. Some servers have +12 Stat boosts equipment, +8 EB armors and weapons, full immunity items, etc. which tends to elevate non-casters above casters, making builds like the Kaze-no-Kama monk into amazing destructive forces. Here, the Kaze is on the lower end of the power scale because equipment doesn't exist that allows a Kaze to shine. Our server is balanced to the other end of the spectrum where casters are simply better (even at melee) then melee builds. While it is frustrating for some of us, this actually mirrors what the PnP game is set up to do (at obviously lower power levels). While a Wizard can buff themselves to be a better tank than a fighter and a Cleric can be a better tank AND melee damage dealer than the fighter, where a fighter really shines is if that Cleric and Wizard give him those buffs!
Unfortunately this being an online game a Fighter can't really count on having a friendly wizard/cleric around to buff him and this is where 'builds' become so much more important in online gaming. Mixing in Dwarven Defender/Cleric/Rogue (for instance) can in a very large way turn that fighter in to a better tank than the Eldritch Knight while doing a bit more damage and being just as self sufficient. So you're right, Fighter 30 or Rogue 30 are not as viable as a Wiz30 (possibly the best DC caster one can build) or Cle30 (with Domains can get Expose Weakness or other perks without multi-classing, unlike FvS). However, by mixing in other classes or PRCs you can certainly build a more than viable Fighter or Rogue Archetype character. That said, I think we have shown that F30 is certainly viable, and Rogue 30 is as well (though in my opinion less so than the fighter because, HiPS). They are not going to be Powerbuilds, they are going to be better off partying up and solo will be a bit difficult, I would say they are somewhere just below the middle tier of builds, but doesn't mean they can't be fun to play and, in a party they would have plenty to contribute. In a party HiPS is less important and the R30 will have a ton of skills as well as extra feats to play with, the fighter will be solid on the front lines and do just fine as well, contributing with being able to tank, control (knockdown, disarm, etc.) and deal decent and consistent damage.
Re: fighter 30?
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:48 pm
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Re: fighter 30?
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:54 pm
Honestly, this reminds me a lot of how I played WM in NWN1 on roleplaying servers. You used to be able to take up to 7 weapons of choice, if you took weapon focus before key levels. So I'd pick three weapons (longsword, bastard sword, great sword)... and max those out. Or a blend that allowed for a more knightly feel and options, (Morningstar, dagger, battleaxe, halbert).
I see something close being doable thanks to slash mastery and the additional weapon feats. Three weapons taken as far as fighter allowed.
I see something close being doable thanks to slash mastery and the additional weapon feats. Three weapons taken as far as fighter allowed.
Re: fighter 30?
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:32 pm
Non-spell users wont be effective unfortunately.
Re: fighter 30?
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:23 pm
On the other hand, IF you had a party consisting of a Fighter 30, a Cleric 30, a Wizard 30 and a Rogue 30...you'd have something rather well rounded, AND with each member unique, but a symbiotic group for adventuring, if ever there was one.
Then, if you put in one more member, like a Barbarian 30, or a Paladin 30, it would skew the balance toward more fun!
Then, if you put in one more member, like a Barbarian 30, or a Paladin 30, it would skew the balance toward more fun!
Re: fighter 30?
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:33 pm
warlock or bard... more fun!! poo the pali's unfun waysSteve wrote:On the other hand, IF you had a party consisting of a Fighter 30, a Cleric 30, a Wizard 30 and a Rogue 30...you'd have something rather well rounded, AND with each member unique, but a symbiotic group for adventuring, if ever there was one.
Then, if you put in one more member, like a Barbarian 30, or a Paladin 30, it would skew the balance toward more fun!