Northlander Hewing + Power Attack

[Theodore01]

I think there is one extra perk worth mentioning about Northlander Hewing:

Let us imagine two builds: Barbarian 30 with Northlander Hewing, and Barbarian 20/Frenzied Berserker 10 without.

Both have strength of 40, both need to wield a shield to survive, and both are up against that DR of 20/-, and critical hit immunity.

Northlander Hewing build:

• One handed damage: 12 (Greatsword) + 15 (strength) + 4 (EB) + 19 (NH) - 20 (Opponent's DR) = 30
• One handed AB: 30 (BAB) + 15 (Strength) + 4 (EB) - 2 (Whirlwind Frenzy) - 2 (NH) - 2 (Monkey Grip) = 43
• Attacks done at: 43, 38, 33, 28
• Damage if all attacks land: 120
• Damage if 3 attacks land: 90
• Damage if 2 attacks land: 60
• Damage if 1 attack lands: 30

Frenzied Berserker build:

• One handed damage: 6.5 (Greatsword) + 15 (strength) + 4 (EB) + 12 (IPA) - 20 (Opponent's DR) = 17.5~
• One handed AB: 30 (BAB) + 15 (Strength) + 4 (EB) - 2 (Whirlwind Frenzy) - 6 (IPA) - 2 (Monkey Grip) = 39
• Attacks done at: 39, 34, 29, 24, 19, 14, 39
• Damage if all attacks land: 122.5~
• Damage if 6 attacks land: 105~
• Damage if 5 attacks land: 87~
• Damage if 4 attacks land: 70~
• Damage if 3 attacks land: 52.5~
• Damage if 2 attacks land: 35~
• Damage if 1 attack lands: 17.5~

I hope this example shows the DR penetration that Northlander Hewing grants. Now imagine going against DR of 30/-. NH still deals 20 points of damage per hit and our Frenzied Berserker gets 7.5~ per hit.

But in all fairness, if that shield is not needed for surviability, our FB-Barbarian would deal 36.5~ damage per hit and our NH-Barbarian would be dealing 37 damager per hit. In this case, the FB-Barbarian will out damage the NH-Barbarian and purely out of the virtue of larger number of attacks.

That's all.

That seems indeed not to bad,
please can you do a calculation for a critical hit
and perhaps a twohanded calculation also.

[Theodore01]

The builds who benefit from NH the most atm are probably TWF builds in fact since the substracted attacks should only be for the main hand. Make a STR tempest and you'll have 6 attacks with high AB and some damage.

Will that get fixed or is that working as intended ?

[Valefort]

Doesn't look like working as intended to me, does it to you ?

[Theodore01]

Doesn't look like working as intended to me, does it to you ?

Not at all, but hey - just look at that one-hander feat Then you know why i wonder......

[Valefort]

What's the problem with that one again ?

[Hrafnar]

Yeah I'm a sucker for trying to use things 'as intended' however.

[Sun Wukong]

please can you do a calculation for a critical hit

Northlander Hewing build:
One handed critical hit: [12 (Greatsword) + 15 (strength) + 4 (EB)] x 2 + 19 (NH) - 20 (Opponent's DR) = 61
Two handed critical hit: [12 (Greatsword) + 22 (strength) + 4 (EB)] x 2 + 19 (NH) - 20 (Opponent's DR) = 75

Frenzied Berserker build:
One handed critical hit: [6.5 (Greatsword) + 15 (strength) + 4 (EB) + 12 (IPA)] x 2 - 20 (Opponent's DR) = 55
Two handed critical hit: [6.5 (Greatsword) + 22 (strength) + 4 (EB) + 24 (IPA)] x 2 - 20 (Opponent's DR) = 93

and perhaps a twohanded calculation also.

But in all fairness, if that shield is not needed for surviability, our FB-Barbarian would deal 36.5~ damage per hit and our NH-Barbarian would be dealing 37 damager per hit. In this case, the FB-Barbarian will out damage the NH-Barbarian and purely out of the virtue of larger number of attacks.

But here is the same thing in the exact same format as above;

Northlander Hewing build:

• Two handed damage: 12 (Greatsword) + 22 (strength) + 4 (EB) + 19 (NH) - 20 (Opponent's DR) = 37
• Two handed AB: 30 (BAB) + 15 (Strength) + 4 (EB) - 2 (Whirlwind Frenzy) - 2 (NH) = 45
• Attacks done at: 45, 40, 35, 30
• Damage if all attacks land: 148
• Damage if 3 attacks land: 111
• Damage if 2 attacks land: 74
• Damage if 1 attack lands: 37

Frenzied Berserker build:

• Two handed damage: 6.5 (Greatsword) + 22 (strength) + 4 (EB) + 24 (IPA) - 20 (Opponent's DR) = 36.5~
• Two handed AB: 30 (BAB) + 15 (Strength) + 4 (EB) - 2 (Whirlwind Frenzy) - 6 (IPA) = 41
• Attacks done at: 41, 36, 31, 26, 21, 16, 41
• Damage if all attacks land: 255.5~
• Damage if 6 attacks land: 219~
• Damage if 5 attacks land: 182.5~
• Damage if 4 attacks land: 146~
• Damage if 3 attacks land: 109.5~
• Damage if 2 attacks land: 73~
• Damage if 1 attack lands: 36.5~

So - if you are fighting "Sword-and-Board" - then the Northlander Hewing feat appears to be the better option over IPA with 10 levels of FB.

Now, nothing says you cannot combine the two or switch from one to the other as needed.

[Sun Wukong]

Doesn't look like working as intended to me, does it to you ?

If both hands were treated the same, someone with 6 main hand attacks and 3 off hand attacks should get either 3 main hand attacks and 2 off hand attacks - or - 5 mainhand attacks and no off hand attacks.

[Theodore01]

.....

Thanks for the additional numbers

Seems the feat works best on a Str-based Gish/bard who has max 5 attacks, as he still keeps 3.
A Fighter gets down from 6 to 3

[Sun Wukong]

Frenzied Berserker build with Northlander Hewing:

One handed PA critical hit: [12 (Greatsword) + 15 (strength) + 4 (EB) + 6 (PA)] x 2 + 19 (NH) - 20 (Opponent's DR) = 73

One handed IPA critical hit: [12 (Greatsword) + 15 (strength) + 4 (EB) + 12 (IPA)] x 2 + 19 (NH) - 20 (Opponent's DR) = 85

Two handed PA critical hit: [12 (Greatsword) + 22 (strength) + 4 (EB) + 12 (PA)] x 2 + 19 (NH) - 20 (Opponent's DR) = 99

Two handed IPA critical hit: [12 (Greatsword) + 22 (strength) + 4 (EB) + 24 (IPA)] x 2 + 19 (NH) - 20 (Opponent's DR) = 123


With PA and NH:

• One handed damage: 12 (Greatsword) + 15 (strength) + 4 (EB) + 6 (PA) + 19 (NH) - 20 (Opponent's DR) = 36
• One handed AB: 30 (BAB) + 15 (Strength) + 4 (EB) - 2 (Whirlwind Frenzy) -3 (PA) - 2 (NH) - 2 (Monkey Grip) = 40
• Attacks done at: 40, 35, 30, 25
• Damage if all attacks land: 144
• Damage if 3 attacks land: 108
• Damage if 2 attacks land: 72
• Damage if 1 attack lands: 36

• Two handed damage: 12 (Greatsword) + 22 (strength) + 4 (EB) + 12 (PA) + 19 (NH) - 20 (Opponent's DR) = 49
• Two handed AB: 30 (BAB) + 15 (Strength) + 4 (EB) - 2 (Whirlwind Frenzy) - 3 (PA) - 2 (NH) = 45
• Attacks done at: 42, 37, 32, 27
• Damage if all attacks land: 196
• Damage if 3 attacks land: 147
• Damage if 2 attacks land: 98
• Damage if 1 attack lands: 49

With IPA and NH:

• One handed damage: 12 (Greatsword) + 15 (strength) + 4 (EB) + 12 (IPA) + 19 (NH) - 20 (Opponent's DR) = 42
• One handed AB: 30 (BAB) + 15 (Strength) + 4 (EB) - 2 (Whirlwind Frenzy) -6 (IPA) - 2 (NH) - 2 (Monkey Grip) = 37
• Attacks done at: 37, 32, 27, 22
• Damage if all attacks land: 168
• Damage if 3 attacks land: 126
• Damage if 2 attacks land: 84
• Damage if 1 attack lands: 42

• Two handed damage: 12 (Greatsword) + 22 (strength) + 4 (EB) + 24 (IPA) + 19 (NH) - 20 (Opponent's DR) = 61
• Two handed AB: 30 (BAB) + 15 (Strength) + 4 (EB) - 2 (Whirlwind Frenzy) - 6 (IPA) - 2 (NH) = 39
• Attacks done at: 39, 34, 29, 24
• Damage if all attacks land: 244
• Damage if 3 attacks land: 183
• Damage if 2 attacks land: 122
• Damage if 1 attack lands: 61

Therefore, if you have that Favored Power Attack, it will make sense to combine NH with either PA or IPA.

Too many numbers...