Help with an Assassin/thief kind of build

[7threalm]

oh really ?

[VillageGreenWitch]

How good is Assassin really?

If you plan playing a dualwield or a ranged-weapon rogue you cannot go wrong with assassin, I'd say - the only "problem" is that you are essentially forced to play a hitman style of char.
I haven't played an assassin on BGTSCC for 7 years but back then playing an assassin led to considerably more potential PvP situations - something that I simply don't like much (which made me stop playing my assassin. )
And whenever you stun an enemy with that death attack it will be shown clearly for everyone - and for quite a while.

If you are up to RPing an assassin it's a strong PrC with an almost perfect selection of spells - unlike Blackguard half of whose spells lose any efficiency past char level 10, sadly.

[K'yon Oblodra]

So hitting something with a sneak attack will out me as Assassin or is that considered metagaming if someone assumes me to be an Assassin upon seeing the animation?

Why are other sneak attacks not fully accounted for but death attack is?

How good is Assassin really?

If you plan playing a dualwield or a ranged-weapon rogue you cannot go wrong with assassin, I'd say - the only "problem" is that you are essentially forced to play a hitman style of char.
I haven't played an assassin on BGTSCC for 7 years but back then playing an assassin led to considerably more potential PvP situations - something that I simply don't like much (which made me stop playing my assassin. )
And whenever you stun an enemy with that death attack it will be shown clearly for everyone - and for quite a while.

If you are up to RPing an assassin it's a strong PrC with an almost perfect selection of spells - unlike Blackguard half of whose spells lose any efficiency past char level 10, sadly.

[Sun Wukong]

Assassin sneak attack dice are a bit bugged. For example, Epic Precision is supposed to allow you to deal half of your sneak attack damage against critical hit immunity instead of none - but the death attack sneak attack dice are not halved.

Thus a character with 8d6 regular sneak attack and 4d6 'death attack' would actually deal "8d6" points of damage on a sneak attack instead of 6d6 with Epic Precision on that critical hit immune opponent.

Additionally, Manyshot doubles the death attack sneak attacks, which means that 4d6 'Death attack' basically becomes 8d6.

[K'yon Oblodra]

Manyshot Assassin is that something people play? Would feel a bit out of character.

Additionally, Manyshot doubles the death attack sneak attacks, which means that 4d6 'Death attack' basically becomes 8d6.

[Sun Wukong]

Ranger 21/Assassin 9... Fighter 12/Assassin 9/Arcane Archer 9... Rogue 10/Fighter 8/Assassin 8/Elemental Archer 4... And many, many more such builds.

[dzidek1983]

I'm playing now a simple rogue21/assasin9 build... don't have much problems with PvE.

[Sun Wukong]

And I suppose it would be fair to ask... Do you have at least +2 Hide/Move Silently from every inventory slot you got? Because I did too and I didn't really have much issues a while back.

Got to get the sneak gear to be able to be a sneak.

[dzidek1983]

You can now buy via auctions better then +2 sneak gear easily, and +2 is way cheaper then in shops... just need to search for it.

[K'yon Oblodra]

Do people react to your death attack animation? Like force RP onto you based on the assumption that you are an Assassin?

I'm playing now a simple rogue21/assasin9 build... don't have much problems with PvE.

[chad878262]

I've never had anyone do so, but I don't think I've ever used it with a paladin in the party either. In any case, Assassin is not required to be evil. Some will say this is crap, but the Avenger class is literally a cut and paste of assassin, but must be good/neutral, so the requirement on this server was lifted solely to avoid building a carbon copy PRC. So basically you just RP it as a sneak attack that essentially renders the target paralyzed by targeting the spine or something. No RP outside of what might occur by using a regular sneak attack should occur. Maybe a Paladin would give you a hard time about fighting dirty, but there should be nothing specific to Death Attack in my opinion.

[dzidek1983]

Do people react to your death attack animation? Like force RP onto you based on the assumption that you are an Assassin?

I'm playing now a simple rogue21/assasin9 build... don't have much problems with PvE.

What party???

As an assasin you lure into the dungeon and stab them to death after they have helped you with enemies

But seriously - no... people don't RP that green flash...

[K'yon Oblodra]

That's good to know, I'd hate it if people would metagame that somehow, would be a straight reason for me to not play the prc at all

[K'yon Oblodra]

I've done some tries in the builder...

Didn't really come to a great conclusion as it always seemed like I would be missing out on good stuff either way I was trying.

Another thing that struck me was that invisible blade requires two weapon fighting which seems counter intuitive considering the main damage comes from the first flurry or will that give me more attacks in that flurry as well? Which would probably make it a good thing to invest in even more two weapon fighting feats.

Then there are crippling strike and epic precision which seem very good.

Lastly there is the epic dodge which to me seems to be super costly. Defensive roll dodge improved evasion which is requiring quiet a lot of levels in either Rogue or SD and lastly 30 tumble which would be at level 27 earliest making this be available super late.
Makes me wonder if that feat is all that desirable.

All in all I wonder are there like Rogue archetypes that only specialize in either of those things exclusively or is it very well possible to combine most of these?

Currently I see two different paths for me to go.

One would be the Rogue?/GT(3)-5/IB5/Assassin8-10 build where I am still very unsure which feats to pick which would have the obvious advantage of the death attack, feint and hips but what feels like very late.

The other build would be R?/GT3-5/IB5/WS7-10/SD3-5
This would get a higher AB with WS which would also grant Camouflage which feels like it would be super awesome but it would be super tricky to build and probably take forever to get critical feats. Also I wonder if the extra AB is worth it or not.

I know this was a very long post, sorry bout that, there is just so many questions here for me

[chad878262]

I don't think you are understanding my explanation of how flurries work with # of attacks per round. In fact with any sneak attack build you really MUST either go archery or perfect two weapon fighting (unless a feint build).

As I stated in the other thread, your first flurry of attacks is dependent upon your total APR, so without PTWF you cap out at 5 APR (6 with haste) thus you only get 2 sneak attacks at max level. PTWF gives you 10 APR, which is a threshold number since 9 APR would still be 3 sneak attacks (3 attacks in the first flurry) while the 10th attack gives you 4. Hopefully this makes it more understandable, but suffice to say for a DEX build with lots of sneak dice and HiPS you really need perfect two weapon fighting or archery build.