Remove Arch Mage's spell slot requirements?

[Sun Wukong]

I disagree. You want to buff an already powerful arcane class(AM) because of what a similar class for diviners (Hierophant) gets. Both classes are powerful. The melee classes you mentioned were behind and was asked to buff them by staff decision. There is nothing in common in your comparison.

The Hierophant is objectively better PRC - it has practically no requirements and its class perks come with no penalties. The only base class that the Archmage truly caters for is the Sorcerer because of their more limited spellcasting - while wizards only seem to suffer from various nuisances than benefit from the PRC perks. Thus it is easy to argue how Bloodmagus and Shadow Adept are the better PRCs for Wizards.

As for those melee classes that were behind. Before the change I had a Barbarian/Fighter/Battlerager with Whirlwind Frenzy and Ice-troll Berserker that at level 16 was able to beat up a level 25 Earth Genasi Fighter/Frenzied Berserker/Rogue/Weapon Master. I just put on Combat Expertise, Tower Shield, raged, kept knocking him on the ground. Now, had that Earth Genasi turned off his IPA and put turned on CE and/or equiped a shield - then things might have gone differently. But this just shows how Barbarians were already rather beastly creatures before the recent buffs.

AM already got some buffs. At first the spell slot was greater and it was reduced. There are no multiclassing restrictions any more. With your logic one can ask to remove the DC and CL penalty for SAs, since AM will get no penalties for the extra CL.

Yet the nuisances mentioned on previous page and many topics still linger onwards for anyone who is not playing a Sorcerer of sorts. You have mentioned how there is intent to fix, which spell slot gets devoured, but what if this intend does not produce a solution? Would it simply be better to reconsider the 'spell slot' cost of some abilities at least?

Now, if the spell DC and CL penalties for Shadow Adepts cause problems - such as those are being applied where they should not be - then yes I would ask for them to be removed. Based on my logic it would be a 'bug fix' to remove the wonky DC and CL penalties - it would just increase player happiness - even if I personally would never make a Shadow Adept.

AM got enought buffs already. Its not likely - for me - to get another.

This is not about buffs, or nerfs, it is about bug fixes.

[mrm3ntalist]

Barbarians were beastly because you won a pvp? People here should not measure a class's abilities after they lose/win a pvp.

This is not about buffs, or nerfs, it is about bug fixes.

The bug with the spell slot items should be fixable. There is no need to remove the spell slot because of that. There is no need to remove them by comparing AM to Hierophant. In short, there is no reason at all to remove them, other than simply buffing the AM more.

[Valefort]

Nuisance fixing now ? That's going to take some time. Seriously, it's not like it's not working at all

[Maecius]

Nuisance fixing now ? That's going to take some time. Seriously, it's not like it's not working at all

Take it as a compliment, V! It just means that you've been fixing all the serious bugs, so now people can point out quality-of-life fixes for you!

[Sputnik]

For example, AK/WOD do get tumble as a class skill

WoD does not get Tumble as a class skill, while Anointed Knight does.
Seeing as some staff are unaware of this, perhaps it was an oversight?

[Sun Wukong]

Barbarians were beastly because you won a pvp? People here should not measure a class's abilities after they lose/win a pvp.

High AC is a good thing to have in PvE - it is not something that just works against the most common cookie cutter melee build on this server - and it was high AC while also having higher than 'normal' strength modifier. There werent that many things that I could not reliably knockdown and strength modifier always adds more AB and Damage.

The bug with the spell slot items should be fixable. There is no need to remove the spell slot because of that. There is no need to remove them by comparing AM to Hierophant. In short, there is no reason at all to remove them, other than simply buffing the AM more.

Perhaps the bug is fixable, but it will have to be fixed first. As for comparing Hierophant and Archmage - it is a valid thing to do - the two PRCs were not exactly released on the same week. There have been rather considerable changes in between - most notably the fix on the practised spell caster bug along with dispel checks. Not to mention that as described earlier, to reach caster level of '38' as an arcanist you need to have three PRCs - where as a divine caster - you just need 8 levels of Hierophant, and some builds could even reach caster levels of 42+.

Additionally, as a blast from the past, Ghost-faced Killer used to be consider an 'OP' PRC. After all, it provided full BAB with sneak attack progression, save or die ability, and quasi-hips on top. Then more things were added, changes done, until this previously 'OP' PRC was not considered as such - and it has been reworked since.

So here is the question, can you present a case as to why changes implemented on the server would not warrant reconsideration with past content - especially when it appears to be a common practise?

Nuisance fixing now ? That's going to take some time. Seriously, it's not like it's not working at all

Take it as a compliment, V! It just means that you've been fixing all the serious bugs, so now people can point out quality-of-life fixes for you!

Well, if a bug is not game breaking, it is kind of like a nuisance. Sure you can live with it - but it would be nicer to live without. Which is to say that nuisance fixing is a serious aspect of bug fixing.

[chad878262]

For example, AK/WOD do get tumble as a class skill

WoD does not get Tumble as a class skill, while Anointed Knight does.
Seeing as some staff are unaware of this, perhaps it was an oversight?

The over sight is not listing tumble as a class skill... in game wod does get tumble.

[Sun Wukong]

Anyhow, just saying that I do not see a reason to use Archmage unless you go for a dedicated caster Sorcerer, and in that case the build is going to be some variant of Sorcerer/Arcane Scholar/Archmage, maybe with 4 or 6 levels of Divine Champion just to get Automatic: Quicken Spell III or IV.