Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Valefort wrote:It's total number of attacks, bonus one from haste included, divided by 2, rounded down.

And I repeat, it is not how it works in game. Currently I have a character with BAB of 25, he gets 2 attacks without Whirlwind Frenzy and 3 when it is active. I asked a DM to give me enough experience to level up to see what happens when I get BAB of 26. I had 3 attacks without Whirlwind Frenzy, and 4 when it was active. (And the experience was taken away and the end of this little test.)

Since when whirlwind frenzy is haste ?!

whirl rage acts has a (haste spell) always been that way. you just dont get the movement speed bonus

Yes but it's not quite the haste spell when you script, I forgot to count that whirlwind bonus attack. What else is there, frenzy, flee the scene ?

Duelist movement speed, the epic feat... etc... What of UMD consumables?

But honestly? Is removal of the +1 attack from haste really warranted? I honestly fail to see a power issue with it.

Anyhow, how does NH work with two-weapon fighting?

NH doesn't work well with TWF at all, as the attacks removed are the last ones on teh attack schedule ie ... the offhand attacks.

UMD consumables use haste spell so that is sorted, as to why it's just to make thigns work as per the feat description : half your attacks, can't see why there should be a special treatment for haste and haste-like bonus attacks.

Valefort wrote:NH doesn't work well with TWF at all, as the attacks removed are the last ones on teh attack schedule ie ... the offhand attacks.

So, if I were to make a Strength based ranger with Perfect Two Weapon Fighting, I would only get the main hand attacks? Yes? If you think about it, it is not as useless as it sounds. I could just have any dodgy weapon as the off-hand one. For example that randomly generated dagger that just gives +2 Reflex saves?

With just Tempest's Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, at BAB of 26, 6 main hand, 3 off hand, so 4 main hand attacks. Same as Dread Pirate's Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, 6 main hand, 2 off hand, so 4 attacks main hand attacks.

You know, I kind of see a way to make use of TWF and NH here, to a point where... I'd say that it does work. In some cases perhaps scaringly well. EDit: But considering my tendency to go for kind of less than ideal builds... perhaps it is not that scaring for you...

Valefort wrote:UMD consumables use haste spell so that is sorted, as to why it's just to make thigns work as per the feat description : half your attacks, can't see why there should be a special treatment for haste and haste-like bonus attacks.

If someone wants to make use of NH, and if this topic is to show anything, people are already very reluctant to do so. And if it is limited to just "half of your attacks" - there is even less reason to go for this feat. Basically, on a full bab character, Haste spell from whatever source would only be useful at level ranges of 1-5, 11-15, and 21-25. It is kind of odd in a way.

Now, were Haste to give that +1 attack, it would be +1 attack from level 1 to level 30. And we should not forget that this haste attack is not done at your full BAB. It is done at -5, -10, -15 depending on on your current BAB.

So, even you allow this +1 attack from Haste, at level 30 you would be looking at something like: 40/35/30/25 with Northlander Hewing active. While a more traditional character would be at 40/35/30/25/20/15/40 - and this is the reason why the traditional builds will out damage anyone using NH unless they are against some fringe case of extremely high mob DR and AB.

Edit: And if the description is the issue, well just consider adding this line at the end: 'Haste will always give you one extra attack.'

Yes, going for a TWF build but using only main hand and NH is a possibility, but I don't think it's worth it, otherwise the feat isn't bad and allows you to punch through DR and high AC so I don't think it is going to be changed, people seemingly reluctant to play it or not.

Valefort wrote:Yes, going for a TWF build but using only main hand and NH is a possibility, but I don't think it's worth it, otherwise the feat isn't bad and allows you to punch through DR and high AC so I don't think it is going to be changed, people seemingly reluctant to play it or not.

The thing is, I do not think any of you have actually considered what it is like leveling with this feat at all. Now, with the changes you have introduced and will introduce, you have 1 attack with 6 BAB, you have 2 attacks at 16 BAB, and 3 attacks at 26 BAB. You suffer from the same concealment weakness as a Crossbow Sniper, with a considerable difference that you need to reach level 26 to get 3 attacks. In otherwords, you have made this feat completely and utterly redudandant. The only one who will ever use it is me, and even that is only because my character is already at level 25 - so in theory I can crawl to level 26 with quest experience alone if need be. Even then I guess I would be better off with a RCR...

So to sum it up, whatever effort was seen and amount of time was spent to create this Northlander Hewing feat, and then spent on to bug fix it, has been all for naught.

I cannot recommend anyone to use it. The critical damage you do doesn't even get the bonus damage you are supposed to get on top, and the only situation where using it might sound mechanically feasibible is actually so rare that you are better off with any other feat.

Oh and:



Sigh...

At least make it 'half your attacks rounded up' - so that whoever makes the mistake of using it is not as royally (do-me) up. Oh, and currently the only relatively feasible NH build is as follows: Barbarian 20/Bard 3/Dread Pirate 7.

-______________________-

I must really not be typing clearly.

26 BAB => 6 attacks
Haste like effect => 7 attacks

7/2, rounded down = 3.

7 (total number of attacks) -3 (attacks removed) = 4

You'll have 4 attacks in a round with 26 BAB and an haste like effect.

Would it become overpowered, if rounded up?

That would be one less attack for you, I doubt that's what you want

This:

Valefort wrote:It's total number of attacks, bonus one from haste included, divided by 2, rounded down.

Is not the same as this:

Valefort wrote:26 BAB => 6 attacks
Haste like effect => 7 attacks

7/2, rounded down = 3.

7 (total number of attacks) -3 (attacks removed) = 4

You'll have 4 attacks in a round with 26 BAB and an haste like effect.

Which means that this:

Valefort wrote:-______________________-

I must really not be typing clearly.

Is bit of understatement.

It appears the correct wording would be you lose half your attacks, rounded down.