The most important thing you can do (bigby spells)

[chad878262]

I am a bit confused by this... There is very limited specific counter play to many spells, and often the answer is SR, Mantles, HiPS, etc... IGMS can be blocked by Magic damage reduction/resistance, but that is pretty rare to get at better than 5% so unlikely to be a viable option for most players. Magic is and always has been a staple top tier power in D&D. All the way back to the beginning Wizards start as the weakest, least fun to play but by about level 5 they begin to at a minimum have decent Nova type spells. Once you get to mid levels (~9) they are usually the top character with regard to taking out enemies. In PnP this is generally not an issue since most campaigns will take characters from levels 1 - 15 tops. However, we aren't playing PnP so when the issue of PvP is considered this is often a major concern for some. I would say that being a cooperative, RP based server this should still not be an issue since the focus should not be having the ability to defeat a CL30 wizard with a warrior. Frankly that wizard doesn't need Bigby to take most other character types out, there are a dozen other spells and combinations they can use to achieve the same result. Bigby is just probably the easiest in most cases. A wand of Grease can accomplish much the same result, combined with some quickened grease spells. Layering grease on an area to render the enemy immobile followed by the same tactics often used with Bigby.

TL;DR - What exactly would change if Bigby was nerfed or removed? Very little.

[Calodan]

Doesn't spell resistance stop Bigby's? It definitely stops Bigby's Interposing Hand, I wonder about the others. Besides, how many mobs even use Bigby's 6 or 9 .... the minotaur mage, Chaos (?), undead mini-boss in the vault. Who else?

Edit: Also, HiPS and counterspell are options. So there is a little bit of counter play for the few times you encounter this spell.

I have never stopped a Bigby ever with SR. I have full SR for a Divine Caster.

Escape Artist does suck unless a DEX based PC as well.

If the computer has the old Bigby still that is BS. Just flat BS. Something needs to be done about this. As it stands for anyone not using some sort of magic you are screwed and that is not a feeling you want to give your player base that they have no way of winning. Don't mind losing but I hate being forced into losing too. Just fix it. Just like with Evasion and Expose Weakness this needs fixing. If you are going to go out and nerf our melee toons that use these then the magic needs to be toned back down. ALL OF IT since ALL OF IT was bumped up to make it more effective with the way those things worked..........

[Lockonnow]

nothing can be fix it is to hard code, people we soon see something we fear the world will burn

[Face]

HiPSing Mage = BIG WIN.

Tell that to Omar...He nearly ate poor Frigo. haha

[Steve]

"Hey Omar...if you're a HiPSing mage and get owned by any other toon, you'd better have a talk with your Player and get them some schooling!"

How'd I do??

[dedude]

"Hey Omar...if you're a HiPSing mage and get owned by any other toon, you'd better have a talk with your Player and get them some schooling!"

How'd I do??

Maybe Omar is a dragon with higher spot than Poor Frigo's hide skill.

[Steve]

Oh, I get it now: Frigo is the hipsing mage. Perhaps old Friigo forgot to memorize his Bigby spells?!?

[Sun Wukong]

Back in the day when Amplify gave +20 Listen, wasn't bugged, etc... and was only dispelled by not really much anything...

I did have a Bard 4/Sorcerer 6/Frost Mage 10/Arcane Scholar 10... With Automatic: Quicken Spell II... (Bard also gets Silence as a level two spell, which this character got to cast quickened...) Or was it a Bard 4/Wizard 6 /FrostMage 10/Arcane Scholar 10 with Automatic: Quicken Spell III? I forget...

Not saying that it is a surefire way to defeat an arcanist... But that wand of silence has its uses too. Few arcanists can cast many spells while standing in an area of silence...

You know, there is always ways to beat up arcanists... Like one EDM Cleric with NH to deal 90~ damage a hit to make it next to impossible to make the concentration check...

[Flasmix]

Ahhh, finally spring has arrived. I know this because it's time for our annual "I hate Bigby's" thread. I've been a huge fan of these ever since the olden days as they inspired one of my PCs. If you think Bigby's is annoying, despite it giving you an opportunity to escape, you'd really love Extended Solipsism. A single saving throw to determine if you stand around for 6 minutes doing nothing or can keep going.

Think of all you can do in those 6 minutes! Make a cup of soup and go to the bathroom? No problem! Write an angry forum post? You can! Uninstall the game? Why, you'll still be Solipsism'd with four minutes to spare!

[Blaze997]

Ahhh, finally spring has arrived. I know this because it's time for our annual "I hate Bigby's" thread. I've been a huge fan of these ever since the olden days as they inspired one of my PCs. If you think Bigby's is annoying, despite it giving you an opportunity to escape, you'd really love Extended Solipsism. A single saving throw to determine if you stand around for 6 minutes doing nothing or can keep going.

Think of all you can do in those 6 minutes! Make a cup of soup and go to the bathroom? No problem! Write an angry forum post? You can! Uninstall the game? Why, you'll still be Solipsism'd with four minutes to spare!

Well at least that has a save. A "chance" to escape means nothing when the check is impossible anyway. Also, I knew we would get at least one "these spells are ok because wizards have them and they are the best." These spells are far and away the best option for mages and outclass all other control spells, so even by wiz/sorc standards they are way out of line. Ranged paralyze. Impossible check. Ignores immunities. If wiz/sorc were supposed to be that good then why are there saves on their other spells?

[Flasmix]

Well at least that has a save. A "chance" to escape means nothing when the check is impossible anyway. Also, I knew we would get at least one "these spells are ok because wizards have them and they are the best." These spells are far and away the best option for mages and outclass all other control spells, so even by wiz/sorc standards they are way out of line. Ranged paralyze. Impossible check. Ignores immunities. If wiz/sorc were supposed to be that good then why are there saves on their other spells?

If you want fun with other spells that don't have saves, you can always go with the Avasculate + Power word petrify combo.

And the check isn't impossible to make, it's based on your highest stat meaning you can get away and in many cases, beat the bonus that the Bigby hand gets depending on your build.
It also doesn't ignore immunities. There are some spells that can be used by other classes that make you immune to Knockdown and Freedom of Movement would make you immune to the effects of Bigby 7/8.

[Sun Wukong]

Bigby's hand spells are not a problem in PnP... As they create a hand you can just cut down with your blade.

Anyhow, what is annoying about Bigbies is that those spells do not end even if you do manage to make your saves. They will just keep re-applying.... so the best thing you can do is just log out.

[chad878262]

Grease slows regardless of save. Cast two in one round with Quicken, layer them on and you can render anyone stuck.

touch of idiocy can be quite beneficial for a HiPS mage to render opposition casters useless.

Enervation allows no saving throw and immediately reduces levels, thus causing issues for saves against future spells.

Cloudkill reduces CON even without saves (synergy with layered grease)

Power Word Spells, especially with custom spells specifically to buff them can be fantastic with no saves allowed.

Acid Fog, again with Greases layered can also cause significant damage...same for Wall of Fire and/or Incendiary Cloud.

Avasculate cuts HP in half with no save. Very effective when followed up with Power Word Spells.

Energy Drain - See Enervation.

This is by new means a comprehensive list, but shows there are many spells that disable, damage, or debuff without allowing saves and, in some cases are not effected by spell resistance either. Bigby is far from the most problematic of them, even if it is one of the more popular.

[Sun Wukong]

This is by new means a comprehensive list, but shows there are many spells that disable, damage, or debuff without allowing saves and, in some cases are not effected by spell resistance either. Bigby is far from the most problematic of them, even if it is one of the more popular.

The thing about Bigby is that it does it all with a press of a single button. The other things you mentioned kind of need other buttons to be pressed.

[chad878262]

The thing about Bigby is that it does it all with a press of a single button. The other things you mentioned kind of need other buttons to be pressed.

It may hold with a single button, but grease will slow down significantly with a single button, which is all you need to do whatever the next step in your plan is. All I am saying is that the end result is obtainable without Bigby and there is little any PC can do about it, which is why it amuses me that wands of Least Mantle sometimes don't sell when I put them on Mudd's. I would think any player would jump at such a protection.