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Re: The Bards' Perfectness (gloves) - buggy?
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 3:55 pm
by Mork
Understood - I see there is no way to convince you otherwise.
Let me then just leave it here
It's not a bug, it's a feature
Re: The Bards' Perfectness (gloves) - buggy?
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 5:25 pm
by chad878262
The reason silence specifically is not a bug is because it is exactly how it works in pnp with regard to aoe. In fact it's UNDER POWERED because in pnp you can cast it on a fighter, rogue or other melee non caster and have them run up to enemies (who get a save) . When cast in an area it creates a zone of silence, thus there is no resistance or immunity because that area does not allow sound. When cast on a person then the person it is cast at and any others in the area get a save as you are silencing individuals instead of creating a zone.
So basically silence cast at the ground allows no save ore immunity because sound does not travel in that area... silence cast at a person is silencing targets which allows saves, resistances and immunities.
So the bug cartoon, while entertaining, is misplaced in this case.
Re: The Bards' Perfectness (gloves) - buggy?
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 6:39 pm
by Mork
Custom made items are not subject to any rules that official PnP book can provide. If DM says it does protect from area effect - it does. If DM says it does not work for aoe - it does not. That is how I'd say it "works" in PnP.
On BGTSCC as in a computer online game it can as well work as you say it is - DMs "created" such item and they can decide how they work. So as a DM you can literally create an item that protects wearer from getting wet but only when there is no water around the area of such item - and it cannot be technically called "a bug" when following logic above.
BUT!
I think players would be much happier if immunity would actually mean immunity so such items make more sense and are not a subject of creating rules that are explained in a twisted manner.
Like in our example wearer of such gloves would be under constant effects of a
this spell.
However after having some discussion on IRC i understand its not worth the effort to change so many spells digging through all the code just to get this effect and it is technically not a "bug" just because DMs say so
Re: The Bards' Perfectness (gloves) - buggy?
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 7:11 pm
by chad878262
Mork wrote:Custom made items are not subject to any rules that official PnP book can provide. If DM says it does protect from area effect - it does. If DM says it does not work for aoe - it does not. That is how I'd say it "works" in PnP.
On BGTSCC as in a computer online game it can as well work as you say it is - DMs "created" such item and they can decide how they work. So as a DM you can literally create an item that protects wearer from getting wet but only when there is no water around the area of such item - and it cannot be technically called "a bug" when following logic above.
BUT!
I think players would be much happier if immunity would actually mean immunity so such items make more sense and are not a subject of creating rules that are explained in a twisted manner.
Like in our example wearer of such gloves would be under constant effects of a
this spell.
However after having some discussion on IRC i understand its not worth the effort to change so many spells digging through all the code just to get this effect and it is technically not a "bug" just because DMs say so
While I am happy you understand the issues involved with changing such things, with regard to silence you still don't quite get the point. Of course a DM can house rule whatever they want in PnP as our DM staff can here, though it is not so simple since they all have to agree on it and no single DM can make a judgement call that would impact the entirety of the server/RP on the fly. That said, Silence is spelled out quite clearly that when cast on a spot it is a stationary zone where sound cannot enter or leave, no verbal spellcasting, etc. Only when cast on an unwilling target is a will save aloud. So I say again, Silence and Silence immunity items work exactly as the would in PnP RaW and RaI. You are immune to having the spell cast on you, thus no will save is required. However, if you enter an Area that is under a silence effect you are very much still affected by it since it is not so much that you are being silenced as the area allows no sound to travel. You may still be able to speak, but the sound will go nowhere within the zone of the AoE.
SRD Link that specifies how silence works in 3.5 when cast on a location vs. an individual.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/silence.htm
Re: The Bards' Perfectness (gloves) - buggy?
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 7:28 pm
by Mork
It would be much more "BGTSCC-friendly" if in our example said item worked like a spell i linked
http://dnd.arkalseif.info/spells/spell- ... index.html
Which does prevent silence effect when one enters a zone that is under a silence spell.
Not to mention there are many other spells that should not work like they do with immunity items and AOE.
All my posts in this topic can be summed up to:
What I try to convince you to as a staff of this server is that if ever by some flash of genius some developper figures a quick easy way to fix it - you should at least discuss/consider implementing such fix.
Otherwise - not worth digging through code of tons of spells just to fix it in each one of them.
Re: The Bards' Perfectness (gloves) - buggy?
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 7:38 pm
by chad878262
Joyful Noise exists and you can get wands of such in game if you find a bard with 'craft wand'. However, it is not coded in the way that it is described in 3.5 link you posted. Whereas your link describes Joyful Noise as dispelling zones of silence, in game it grants immunity to silence.
Re: The Bards' Perfectness (gloves) - buggy?
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 7:42 pm
by Tsidkenu
There is a fix available, too. On Sigil all AOE 'cloud' spells check for both SR & spell immunity (eg. globe of invunerability). Whether it should apply to a zone of silence is another matter. Silence should negate SR and the will save when cast on an ally, but Bugsidian stuffed that mechanic as well.
Re: The Bards' Perfectness (gloves) - buggy?
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 7:42 pm
by Mork
Whereas your link describes Joyful Noise as dispelling zones of silence, in game it grants immunity to silence.
To be precise not dispelled by that particullar spell but:
Code: Select all
The silence effect is not dispelled but simply held in abeyance; it remains in effect outside the area of the joyful noise effect.