High Arcana and Arcane Help for the Clueless

[K'yon Oblodra]

Well to me every drow should be able to fight to some extend.

The ASoC/AM is supposed to resemble his deep understanding in regards to the arcane arts in all its facets. He is certainly no blaster cause my forbidden school is evocation.
DC mage to some extend as he'll have a fairly high int and I could go for 3 spellpower high arcana in theory. Not sure it's enough to make him a real DC mage though.

The build is more an RP build than power build.
I am not even sure I want the AM abilities to change the elements or make Aoe harmless to allies. The elemental changing would make sense RPwise.

It's also a pretty incredible change in his personality he used to have troubles learning abating related to magic and at the peak of his power he'll be one of the most adverse with it

[Deathgrowl]

I'm not suggesting you have to powerbuild to be viable. There's a difference between "powerbuild" and "optimised".

But I didn't get a very clear picture of what you want the character to be doing.

I also don't understand this:

Well to me every drow should be able to fight to some extend.

I was messing around with an idea for a DC mage where you could be viable in Shapechange for soloing purposes a couple of days ago. So basically, you have good DCs (40 DC wail of the banshee), but also decent BAB for fighting while shapechanged.

The point is that soloing as a controller or blaster tends to be tedious with either buffing up a summon/dominated and just watching it slowly grind away at enemies, or you kill enemies with your attack spells, then have to wait for rest each time you run out.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?268566

Didn't turn out half bad, actually. And this should qualify for your "should be able to fight to some extent" even outside of shapechange, though melee damage with a weapon won't be anything to really celebrate.

Great DCs though.

[K'yon Oblodra]

Mmh was considering to cut into the EK levels some more to just use tensers later.

You didn't quiet catch a clear direction cause I have none XD. Question is probably really which amount of levels of EK would make sense in regards to get as many attacks as possible...

[Planehopper]

Yeah I am starting to have my doubts about extending out Archmage to 10 (as was my original thought - Wiz 15/Thaum 5/AM 10). That said, I am on lvl 5 so I need to either cut my losses and go for wiz 20 and the bonus feat, or take at least one more! Then, when I am in too deep already, I should probably go 8 to pick up Spell Power III. Oh the sweet, sweet mechanical decisions that tempt my RPing heart.

Why do you need Spellpower III? You should have 30 CL, and with Spellpower II end up on 32 CL. Which nets you another +1 DC. 33 CL only gives you +1 CL, no DC. It's not worth it IMO. Just saying if this was something you hadn't thought of.

Yeah.. I guess that wouldn't help much eh? No one said I knew what I was doing.

Updated the thread title for clarity. Sorry K'yon.

[K'yon Oblodra]

Yeah.. I guess that wouldn't help much eh? No one said I knew what I was doing.

Updated the thread title for clarity. Sorry K'yon.

All good if at all I have to be sorry for the high jacking... Kinda thought I'd just get an answer and that a new thread would be a waste... Guess I was wrong.

Gotta say all in all the Archmage looks fairly underwhelming. Having to sacrifice spells for abilities a bloodmage basically gets for free (the CL bonus), the saving allies from AoE doesn't work for clouds etc, the elemental change is pretty cool and the spell like ability things are kinda useful being the only thing that costs you kind of nothing... Giving more casts but limiting the spell selection.

[Glowfire]

Mastery of Elements is far more useful to a Sorcerer. I wouldn't pick it as a wizard. For some builds, archmage doesn't have much to offer - and that's fine. I suspect my build would be better off as a pure wizard instead of multi-classing. You do lose many feats as a wizard on multi-classing.

If you want to be a melee-mage (gish) then you -should- focus on that and really, forget about DCs. Use no-save spells. That's my advise at least. Forget AM, as its feat intensive. You also don't really need Arcane Scholar as a wizard (you lose feats on multi-classing, remember).

Trying to be good at everything as a mage just plain doesn't work. Maybe a wizard build with EK, and Palemaster is something to consider? Not sure about the combination. Deathgrowl or someone else can probably suggest something neat. From your playstyle, I gather you wouldn't want to use Shapechange for damage output.


Also, I'm not an awesome builder so take my words with a grain of salt.

[V'rass]

Reserve feats are the best... Exo already has 4 of them and will prob take more as they are incredibly useful. Yeah most of them will be useless against anyone with high reflex and both evasion feats but against anything else they will do decent damage and you can use them infinitely.

The rune series is the best as you can use them as basically unlimited AOE attacks. As long as at least one enemy is in the area the rune will instantly explode and deal massive damage to everything. I don't even have to use my blast spells much anymore... those four reserve feats provide all the firepower i need 90% of the time.

[Deathgrowl]

On the contrary, reserve feats are useless. In my opinion, anyways.

They take up spell slots for low, insignificant damage, essentially making you an underwhelming warlock. I get why you think it's useful, as it gives you sustainable damage as a mage, but you may as well just go with a crossbow or something. Or rely on summons, that will do even more damage per round than you reserve feats.

And it detracts from the real power of the mage classes: Using that one, powerful spell to change the tide of the battle for your overwhelmed companions (minions - you're an overlord, after all!)

Trying to be good at everything as a mage just plain doesn't work.

Correct. A common problem when people want to make builds, actually.

Maybe a wizard build with EK, and Palemaster is something to consider? Not sure about the combination.

I've played this once! My build was pretty bad, though. At least offensively. But it should be possible to make something decent out of it.

Let me know if you want me to build something like this.

[Tsidkenu]

Bard/PM is better tho

[V'rass]

i would hardly call 8d6 for single target, and 16d6 for AOE insignificant. And Exo is not a pure mage... he is also part cleric and currently the cleric part is low lv. He has a rather limited amount of slots for spells currently and about half of those slots are filled with defensive spells leaving him very little room for blasts. The reserve feats make that weakness go away 9 times out of 10 and that is more then enough reason to take them. Without them he would be worthless in 3-6 turns lol.

[Deathgrowl]

Without them he would be worthless in 3-6 turns lol.

Only if you waste spells!

[Deathgrowl]

Let me know if you want me to build something like this.

I just tossed something together here anyways:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?268700

Gives you an idea of what you can do.

Bard/PM is better tho

Yeeeees. It's absolutely great. I played this:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?169991

Doesn't really rely on the buffs, so you don't have to be concerned about dispels. The buffs are just bonuses.

[Planehopper]

My bid for trying to include improved familiar as a High Arcana feat to help here (and not just for this, I think it would fit well with the lore) was rejected as not meeting a criteria, so I am left trying to decide my next move.

Right now I am W10/Thaum5/ASoC 3/Archmage 5. Sitting at 23rd level and just a day or two's worth of playing from my next level.

I suppose my options are these:

2 more levels of AsoC, which will net me quicken. 5 more levels of wiz for the bonus feat.

1 more level of Archmage, picking up a High Arcana, 5 more levels of wiz for the bonus feat, and 1 level of whatever else for skills I may want. Haven't really looked that deeply there.

So the real choice is Quicken or a High Arcana?

High Arcana choices are Arcane Fire, Mastery of Shaping, or a SLA.
- I don't think Arcane Fire is worth a 9th level slot.
- Mastery of Shaping is nice, but I don't use a ton of non-cloud AoE spells that cause friendly-fire issues.
- SLA is alright. I use certain high level spells pretty frequently so I'd get a free cast out of this. Underwhelming in a 2 for 1 for the higher level spells, though.

Quicken is probably the better route, and I've heard it said its almost necessary, but it isn't all that exciting either.

Anyone care to provide an opinion here? Am I missing a 3rd or 4th option?

====

I should also get feats at 25, 27, and 29 right?

Sitting on an odd INT now, and holding a +3 INT item (that I really like) I will probably go 2 more Grt INT. So one free epic feat left, plus the bonus wiz feat.

Does anyone know if the improved familiar feat is among the WIZ bonus feats? Are Grt INT feats available as bonus WIZ feats?

Epic Gate would fit nicely with my RP, Improved Familiar would too.

Opinions/Insight appreciated.

[chad878262]

I would go bonus feat and quicken. Mastery of shaping is nice and all, as are spell like abilities, but bonus feats mean more DC and quicken is the most important meta-magic for a caster wizard in my opinion. Quicken Least Mantle, Quicken Lesser Spell Breach, Quicken Grease and MANY other quickened spells have significant uses whether you are a PvE focused player or PvP focused.

[K'yon Oblodra]

I would doubt that improved familiar is in the wizard feat list.

Regarding the class choices, really think high arcana are so underwhelming that it's not really an option. Quicken is probably more of a PvP relevant meta magic.

Feels like Wizard is your best option.

Regarding epic gate, I might be wrong but it seems underwhelming to me as well..

Sorry if I sound very negative here.