Upperdark

[Glowfire]

I'd kinda like to start a motion in the UD from the City of S'shamath that the drow behave more hostile towards surfacers in the Upperdark and of course even more so in the UD unless they are really traders with very rare goods they should be seen as enemies or so my character will argue.

I don't want to change anything OOC so there should still be the whole RP out and all but yea since my character is a huge racist he'll pledge for every drow to attack surfacers the way it "should be" from his point of view.

Nothing would prevent your character from doing this but not every other drow may view it the same way. Could be interesting to see where it leads to. It sounds PvP heavy but some people are into that

[flyingchair]

I agree with you K'yon, in the sense that you play your character the way he would act in such a situation, and mine will do the same.(Probably very similar with both being from Menzo) And i know that both underdarkers and surfacers should be ready for pvp in such a hostile place. Still, i think we should all write an ooc message asking if the other party is okay with it, such a simple gesture can do a lot.

[K'yon Oblodra]

I agree with you K'yon, in the sense that you play your character the way he would act in such a situation, and mine will do the same.(Probably very similar with both being from Menzo) And i know that both underdarkers and surfacers should be ready for pvp in such a hostile place. Still, i think we should all write an ooc message asking if the other party is okay with it, such a simple gesture can do a lot.

Totally agree, I think after my last and also my first pvp there was a bit of unhappiness.

This whole idea is actually less about enforcing PvP in the Upperdark rather than to inspire RP within S'shamath further fueling a conflict between Lothlites and those less opposed to the other races. If it leads to a bit more realistic fear of the surfacers moving through the Upperdark it would be a nice thing as well.

Making more areas more attractive for the different player types would be a good goal... Just spawn rates might already help.

[Snarfy]

... can surfacers do the Upperdark quests of the svirfs?

I haven't been there a lot but last time the place was almost crawling with surfacers.

Well... considering we now have drow hanging out on a daily basis around the FAI, this sounds pretty legit to me. With any luck, surfacers will soon be hosting raves in Rockrun, and Svirfs will be organizing group streaking sessions through S'shamath!

But, in all seriousness, normally I would say: surfacers doing Svirf quests should probably fall under the same guidelines as Drow doing surface quests. But, I have long since thrown up my hands in regards to how the setting should be interpreted and respected, and have resorted to scratching my head as to how a particular section of the UD/Surface rules is now, seemingly, being interpreted.

Hidden: show

Races from the surface and the Underdark, respectively, are not permitted to live on the other side without DM approval. Expeditions to the other side have a clear set start and end period for a particular objective with the character returning to it's home setting after the period is over. Stating that you are there to defeat such and such creature, or to test your skill is not a valid RP reason, that is grinding. We also do not consider general exploration, or Drow raids on the surface as a valid RP reason.

Also, I normally would reference the original Baldurs Gate games, and cite the near complete absence of surfacers in Svirf land(except for the players party), the non-existence of Svirfs in S'shamath(unless there were some in cages..?), and the lack of Drow loitering near the FAI. But what would be the point? Because:

... ICly we are already creating a server lore rather than straight D&D lore to a T.

... and what an accommodating and progressively minded clap-trap of lore it has become!

Lastly, as chad878262 pointed out, these areas are very rewarding as far as grinding and loot go. And, as we all know(or should know by now), some things will always take a back seat where XP, loot, and leveling are concerned in a medium-RP setting.

To be honest I'm super-confused myself. When playing surface char I was convinced that each visit in upperdark is high-risk escapade and was always ready to fight for my life... ~snip~... I've also met some players who seemed surprised by hostility of my UD char, not just expecting but almost "demanding" our meeting in the tunnels to go as two humans meeting on the surface road. Is it really that flattened?

I would say you're justified in being super-confused. And no, it's not that flattened. You simply appear to have, from what I can tell, a better grasp on the setting than others. Then again, I did say I'd thrown up my hands about such...

In the immortal words of Valefort, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Nyeleni]

Snarfy you are ignoring the rule for the Upperdark. Both surfacers and UD are allowed there and confrontations should give an rp out if needed.

It's really not confusing at all. Just play how you feel it.

If you are a drow and don't want to see surfacers around the UpD, just rp it.

The same can be said for Bregan who want to have as many contacts as possible to earn gold for instance.

And if you are a surfacer and exploring or grinding the UpD, well do have a reason to do it in rp too. That will make things easier if confronted.

Where is the issue?

[Mork]

I'll be one saying it. Issue is general feeling I have as new drow char is lore and many basic principles of certain cultures were thrown away in attempt to promote more friendly and pvp free environment.
As I discover it I'm having a real hard time to explain myself some elements of Sshamath-s plot that I was put into.
There is no chance drows would resign from having slave races just cause some of them are capable of magic. It is simply done only to avoid conflict situations.
Original Faerunian Bregan Company looked much different and surely would trade only with most prominent organizations, and not every peddler that at some point decided to make a trip to Sshamath.
Also surely just saying "no" would not be enough for any drow to cease hostilities when meeting surfacer in upperdark as they are forced to do on server.
Quality of RP between surface and UD simply struck me as quite poor where plot is falsely driven to avoid potential problems at costs of breaking lore. Potential complains from those that wish to roleplay only inside a protective bauble are better arguments for shaping our world than well-set and respected standards of Faerun.

There is of course other side that I completely understand. With PvP and RP it takes perfection to put them together so they exist harmoniously in a game. I understand it would require hard work and a lot of dedication from server staff. Yet when I feel attempts to reach this perfection are not taken at all it saddens me, and also puts a lot of pressure on my roleplay as it is not easy to adjust and simply "roleplay a drow" as some people suggest. With rules that currently exist It essentially means I'd be banned cause of within many great roleplayers I've met on the server so far there would be always those couple players ready to preparate screens or provoke certain situations to picture themselves as victims.

I really hope this post will be taken as what it really is - my attemt in explaining how "fresh" drow feels in this situation you've built.

I refuse to believe that this experience I'm trying to express is what was consciously planned and designed through all those decisions about Sshamath-s plot course and through server rules.

Also I'd like to put some emphasis on a fact that this is rather fresh and short-term experience and I really hope there is much more to discover in UD RP.

[Valefort]

About the slavery and wizardy ability this is nothing homebrewed but standard lore. For the rest though ... conflict should reign down under !

[V'rass]

Conflict does reign down there... just the other day our group got chased out of Kro's by some drow lunatic who i am told claims to be king of the entire region and owns any and all resources therein. He accused us of stealing his goods and killing his family though i dont know or understand what family he was referring to. Was fun rp and perfectly legit for the setting.

[Nyeleni]

I bet he meant the spiders therein. Some spiderkissers are taking it too seriously .

[Avanos]

I'd kinda like to start a motion in the UD from the City of S'shamath that the drow behave more hostile towards surfacers in the Upperdark and of course even more so in the UD unless they are really traders with very rare goods they should be seen as enemies or so my character will argue.

I don't want to change anything OOC so there should still be the whole RP out and all but yea since my character is a huge racist he'll pledge for every drow to attack surfacers the way it "should be" from his point of view.

I second this motion.. Too many times I see surfacers running down in UD/Sshamath and treated with the utmost respect.. Masked or not..
I see elves running around in sshamath and nobody bats an eye...
You see a drow run on the surface and the entire world comes out to kill you. You see a masked drow on the surface everyone harasses you to take off the mask (because OOC they know you are drow) so they can kill you.

Regarding upperdark.. If drow are KOS on surface, and surfacers are KOS in UD.. Why cant Upperdark be a grey area and render everyone KOS? Keep in mind that drow do not have the upperhand here.. Upperdark is just another surface grinding area.
Lorewise, the upperdark is just a part of the underdark. Its where surface dwellers and those who live in the UD meet most often. You would expect conflict to occur. Its a world foreign to surface races and filled with innumerable dangers.





Please don't take this as being PVP crazed.. as I'm sure most of you would.
I try to avoid pvp/conflict as much as possible, but certain things have to be changed.

[professiondude]

Conflict does reign down there... just the other day our group got chased out of Kro's by some drow lunatic who i am told claims to be king of the entire region and owns any and all resources therein. He accused us of stealing his goods and killing his family though i dont know or understand what family he was referring to. Was fun rp and perfectly legit for the setting.

I lub ya too buddy

[AC81]

Sounds like the passageway to and from the Surface/UD is now too easy of a trip.

[Cubicle]

Just to give credit where it's due, 7threalm actually submitted some of those fancy grinding areas. I simply tweaked them. Saved me from 1-2 months of work..and madness..and cold sweats.

Imo, the Upperdark is still young. Quests, xp, loot, encounters, etc.. are still up for change. Just keep your suggestions coming and we'll get there, sooner or later. Thanks guys.

And also, just in case any surfacers run into my character. "Vel'drav usstan ragar kivvin, usstan xo'al ulu velvel nind!"

[Face]

Just to give credit where it's due, 7threalm actually submitted some of those fancy grinding areas. I simply tweaked them. Saved me from 1-2 months of work..and madness..and cold sweats.

Imo, the Upperdark is still young. Quests, xp, loot, encounters, etc.. are still up for change. Just keep your suggestions coming and we'll get there, sooner or later. Thanks guys.

And also, just in case any surfacers run into my character. "Vel'drav usstan ragar kivvin, usstan xo'al ulu velvel nind!"

Make it bigger , make it conect to more surface and under dark zones.
Its fun it looks good and i want more of it

[Mork]

Regarding upperdark.. If drow are KOS on surface, and surfacers are KOS in UD.. Why cant Upperdark be a grey area and render everyone KOS?

I'd like to expand this plea further and also explain to what purpose it should be used.
Upperdark KOS would simply allow players to instantly set hostile and use "hold/paralyze" type of skill on "runners" that still go there but want to avoid any interactions. This simply makes me want to cry when happens during some ongoing RP.
It would most importantly nullify "PvP consent" rule as it is simply silly in general but especially is seen as such when obviously area should be considered dangerous. In the end no one forces anyone to actually go there.