Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

I love the sense motive which almost none of my old characters have lol but I like seeing others roll it lol

Other Favorites I wish my characters had enough points to put in but don't usually, in no particular order:

Appraise
Disable Device
Open Lock
Heal
Listen
Spot
Search
Lore
Hide
Move Silently
Survival
Slight of Hand
Tumble
UMD

Skills I usually have to take at bare minimum:
Concentration
Spellcraft
Spot
Tumble
UMD

I tried to use my Diplomacy skill on a couple characters that were RPing some serious aggression with each other. I said something like, hey you two your causing a scene perhaps you should dial it down a bit -not in those words but something like that. Then I rolled a 20 something diplomacy check.
I was totally ignored- Perhaps I should have said something more in effort to difuse the situation, but either way it got me thinking.
How do we really use indimidate, or diplomacy with other PC's....its kind of pressures folk to RP a certain way and does not necessarily seen fair. Whats the counter or save for a dc check...what do you roll to prevent being diplomatasized?
Am I wasting points on this skill?
And Bluff, what if I have no points in bluff and I want to tell a lie?

They aren't a waste of skills if there is a DM present for the most part. as far as the rules are concerned players can choose to ignore such rolls if i remember correctly. Personally i will use them with the people i RP with because i know most of them will honor the roll.

Only a DM Can enforce skill rolls/saves on PC's so unfortunately in a situation such as the one described those players are within their rights to ignore your diplomacy check. (Though it would be nice if they at least acknowledged your RP with a simple *scowls in [PCs] direction* or something rather than ignoring it all together).

There are rules for saving throws vs. Intimidate (immunity to fear = auto-success I think?) as there is an opposed check for bluff vs. sense motive. However, I am not quite certain what the opposed roll/check would be vs. diplomacy, nor am I sure their should be. Diplomacy IMO is a measure of one's ability to argue a point and sway others to their opinion, so you were basically on the debate team in high school . I suppose it could be a will save vs. changing ones opinion, but that doesn't seem quite right to me since if you were trying to stop a fight between mortal enemies it would be quite different than stopping a fight between two people that don't really want to fight in the first place, but feel obligated to do so. Presenting a 'way out' of the situation if the two don't want to fight may well diffuse the situation, but for mortal enemies, not likely.

Regarding Diplomacy, Perform, Intimidate, Bluff, Sense Motive.


Do not roll those skills in RP.

Instead, have them as justification for your RP.

Is your character a sweet talker, and RPed as such? You better have some ranks in diplomacy.

Basically, examine your RP and ask yourself "Does my character sheet justify the way I RP my character?" If yes, then woot! If not, try to adjust your skills or stats so it fits.

(But beware before you end up RCRing a hundred times).

Hoihe wrote:Regarding Diplomacy, Perform, Intimidate, Bluff, Sense Motive.

Do not roll those skills in RP.

Y'all just doin it wrongly. This is how those skills should be used for real:




And I'm not being sarcastic. #rollsDiplomacy_d20

Wolfrayne wrote:They aren't a waste of skills if there is a DM present for the most part. as far as the rules are concerned players can choose to ignore such rolls if i remember correctly. Personally i will use them with the people i RP with because i know most of them will honor the roll.

in my opinion, and that is all it is. i think that not only should we play our sheet, but also play our sheet vs others. I honor other player's character sheets and find fun in the challenge of RP interaction. i also think that this type of power is abusive and if you feel someone is abusing the RP skills they should be notified OOC if IC hints are not reaching. this may not be the correct way, but i feel like it is.

chad878262 wrote:Only a DM Can enforce skill rolls/saves on PC's so unfortunately in a situation such as the one described those players are within their rights to ignore your diplomacy check. (Though it would be nice if they at least acknowledged your RP with a simple *scowls in [PCs] direction* or something rather than ignoring it all together).

There are rules for saving throws vs. Intimidate (immunity to fear = auto-success I think?) as there is an opposed check for bluff vs. sense motive. However, I am not quite certain what the opposed roll/check would be vs. diplomacy, nor am I sure their should be. Diplomacy IMO is a measure of one's ability to argue a point and sway others to their opinion, so you were basically on the debate team in high school . I suppose it could be a will save vs. changing ones opinion, but that doesn't seem quite right to me since if you were trying to stop a fight between mortal enemies it would be quite different than stopping a fight between two people that don't really want to fight in the first place, but feel obligated to do so. Presenting a 'way out' of the situation if the two don't want to fight may well diffuse the situation, but for mortal enemies, not likely.

history is filled with diplomacy, bluff and intimidation stalling or even stopping wars between two great enemies. you would not have to think very hard to find numerous examples of this. obviously in a large scale, but history rarely notes the squabbles of a couple non-influential people.

Big difference between negotiations and wars between countries and a fight/battle between two individuals or even a small group. Not sure I see how one applies to the other.

chad878262 wrote:Big difference between negotiations and wars between countries and a fight/battle between two individuals or even a small group. Not sure I see how one applies to the other.

the difference is only the scale and amount of peripheral repercussions. it still typically comes down to one person and another person. they with their beliefs that contradict another's. while one has life at stake the other typically does not only reputation and significance.

of course in a situation like rome's final civil war on egypt. diplomacy held those two as allies for years before the diplomacy broke down and marc antony and cleopatra knew that defeat would spell death, but only reputation was at stake for octavius. although that had meant death previously. that is how diplomacy works until it doesnt. bitter enemies but the diplomat that is utilized gets cast away so war ensues.

then there is the cold war of america (west block) and ussr (east block). that is an example of really two people. both using bluff (star wars) intimidate (parade of arms, third world escalations) and finally diplomacy (INF treaty). in the end... no actual war.

in the end it still comes down to one person and another.

Tekill wrote:check...what do you roll to prevent being diplomatasized?
Am I wasting points on this skill?
And Bluff, what if I have no points in bluff and I want to tell a lie?

I'd say diplomacy counters diplomacy. It's the ability to present someone else your point and try to convince them. They have their own point that they are convinced of and need to be persuaded. So I'd go for diplomacy. But there are some modifiers that need to be taken into account (sometimes poeple call it DC). Just because you have 80 points on diplomacy and roll a natural 20, I doubt you can convince your friendly neighbourhood orc that he is actually a chicken. It's up to the players (or DM, if present) what the required DC would be. So sometimes a good lie might not even need a bluff roll at all to be sucessfull.

chad878262 wrote:There are rules for saving throws vs. Intimidate (immunity to fear = auto-success I think?)

Only if you have a negative INT & WIS modifier. Immunity to fear only prevents you to get the negative effects, and not stopping to think about a possible threat in front of you, and if it would be wise to retreat.

Hoihe wrote:Regarding Diplomacy, Perform, Intimidate, Bluff, Sense Motive.


Do not roll those skills in RP.

Sometimes they are useful, to distiguish between OOC and IC knowledge. Ony of my PCs was recently encountered inside citizen house of Baldur's Gate by another PC. Now we players know that this house belongs to neither of our PCs. But how should the PCs know? So I rolled bluff to pretend it to be my house.

Alright.

So in D&D, Diplo/int/bluff work the same way.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/diplomacy.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/bluff.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/intimidate.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm

As you can see, none of them support using it in CvC.

The issue is, well, I'm going to have to quote Steve this time, or at least paraphrase, is that we players have absolutely no idea how to use modifiers properly!

As such, rolling these skills is just going to result in ridiculous, unrealistic forced roleplay.

Instead, I advise everyone to build their characters and make a skill/stat spread that JUSTIFIES their RP passively.




Fun fact: If we allowed rolls to work, rolling an 50 diplomacy on a friend should force them to become your fanatic slave who will do everything for you without question.

That said, if you cannot rp a character who is a smooth talker, perhaps don't play a diplo-focused character. I've seen some laughable rolls for diplomacy from PCs/players who can barely string a sentence together.

what you are saying is true hoihe. but how are we supposed to quantify these skills? essentially i can have zero intimidate and be just as intimidating as someone with 90. that just doesnt seem right. if we dont have a system that respects these points at all then there is no point in putting points into them.

aaron22 wrote:what you are saying is true hoihe. but how are we supposed to quantify these skills? essentially i can have zero intimidate and be just as intimidating as someone with 90. that just doesnt seem right. if we dont have a system that respects these points at all then there is no point in putting points into them.

While true, this is why you build to JUSTIFY your RP concept, instead of building for power!

However, also keep in mind that NPCs rarely surpass level 3, level 5 as experts and thus will have skills reaching at like 11,12 maximum at the height of their career with their stat modifiers. Thus, 10-15 ranks in diplomacy should be way more enough to justify diplomatic training and approach to situations. 30 ranks in diplomacy would mean incredibly good talker. Like, very damn good whose focus is diplomatic solutions.