Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

metaquad4 wrote:If it helps sweeten the pot, planar binding has no alignment attached to it (you aren't making a deal with the outsider, you are forcing it to bend to your will).

"When you use a calling spell to call an air, chaotic, earth, evil, fire, good, lawful, or water creature, it is a spell of that type."
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planar ... Lesser.htm

Thus, when you call an evil outsider, it becomes an evil spell.

Good characters should have a long think about when it comes to calling evil outsiders. I think the examples you raise are valid to some extent but they are best left to DM oversight.

DMs aren't always available for RP, some people choose to do their RP between consenting players without the oversight of DMs. DM support isn't an option for many cases in RP simply because it isn't present for whatever reason.

And yeah, I see it. I accidentally found a 5th edition reference instead of a 3/3.5 one, my bad there.

There is some debate over evil descriptors and how they correlate to alignment. Some books say one thing, some books say other things. I'll leave that up to the DMs (and players, in completely player-run events) to decide how the situation best fits.

Planarbinding will be back to what it was before - mostly.

Good --> Good and Neutral creatures.
Lawful Neutral --> Lawful and Neutral creatures.
True Neutral --> Neutral creatures.
Chaotic Neutral --> Chaotic and Neutral creatures.
Evil --> Evil and Neutral creatures.

Thank you Nachti

Planarbinding will be back to what it was before - mostly.
Good --> Good and Neutral creatures.
Lawful Neutral --> Lawful and Neutral creatures.
True Neutral --> Neutral creatures.
Chaotic Neutral --> Chaotic and Neutral creatures.
Evil --> Evil and Neutral creatures.

If good and neutral want to summon evil or neutral then they should be allowed to and take the alignment hit. Evil summoning good however should be impossible... no good outsider would willingly work for an evil. If these restrictions go in then summoning losses any value whatsoever.

These are relaxing current restrictions..

Thanks Nachti.

I mean, might as well call the spell Summon Outsider at this point as it loses almost all of its flavor with this. This is a "binding" spell. Bindings are required for those who would not cooperate. I think what you are trying to make with those changes is already in the game and it is called Planar Ally.

You propably can summon an outsider of oppossite alignnment if you know its true name.

I mean, might as well call the spell Summon Outsider at this point as it loses almost all of its flavor with this. This is a "binding" spell. Bindings are required for those who would not cooperate. I think what you are trying to make with those changes is already in the game and it is called Planar Ally.

I know what you mean, but I already spend enough hours to make the summons. Other stuff needs also love.

metaquad4 wrote:If it helps sweeten the pot, planar binding has no alignment attached to it (you aren't making a deal with the outsider, you are forcing it to bend to your will).

This is absolutely plain wrong. I will quote my previous explanation:

1) We are not talking about summoning. Summon spells have no alignment restrictions.
2) The called being is not allowed a chance to break free of the binding, which is should be allowed to. Planar calling spells are crazy dangerous.
3) A called planar being is not required to obey your command, you actually have to convince it, and most likely pay it. An angel is VERY unlikely to agree to help an evil caster, and we can't really represent this scenario well enough through scripting. You are all welcome to ask a DM to help you call on a being of opposite alignment, that is fair game. But just using the spell on your own comes with a few assumptions, like that the caster and called creature has a reasonable chance of coming to an agreement of service.

Okan wrote:I mean, might as well call the spell Summon Outsider at this point as it loses almost all of its flavor with this. This is a "binding" spell. Bindings are required for those who would not cooperate. I think what you are trying to make with those changes is already in the game and it is called Planar Ally.

Bioware implemented the planar binding spells like summon spells. We are trying to make it more true to PnP, but there are limits to what we can do without a DM assisting the player. It is something I care about a great deal, so don't be surprised if more will be changed/added in the future.

dedude wrote:Bioware implemented the planar binding spells like summon spells. We are trying to make it more true to PnP, but there are limits to what we can do without a DM assisting the player. It is something I care about a great deal, so don't be surprised if more will be changed/added in the future.

I think it is great that you are trying to make it like PnP and I greatly appreciate it, don't get me wrong. Extraplanar interactions are one of my favorite aspects of the whole D&D.

That being said bringing the alignment restrictions back is the opposite of what you have said that you are trying to do. Planar Binding has relation to alignment system as the spell acquires an "X" descriptor, x being the subtype of the outsider being bound, but no class that has that spell on their spell list has alignment restrictions, even malconvoker prestige class who add this spell into their base classes list absolves its divine casters of their restrictions for conjurations. I genuinely can not understand reverting that then stating you want to make it closer to its PnP version.

I don't want to get in to why neutral characters get neutered either and hope that it is for balance reasons I do not understand because that also makes zero sense to me, why the most flexible alignment in the game has the worst restriction of any alignment.

Glowfire wrote:"When you use a calling spell to call an air, chaotic, earth, evil, fire, good, lawful, or water creature, it is a spell of that type."
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planar ... Lesser.htm

Thus, when you call an evil outsider, it becomes an evil spell.

Good characters should have a long think about when it comes to calling evil outsiders. I think the examples you raise are valid to some extent but they are best left to DM oversight.

Just be clear that is just for calling, but applies to summonings as well, most notably Summon monster line as well, we should make the same treatment for that spell line then.

Okan wrote:I don't want to get in to why neutral characters get neutered either and hope that it is for balance reasons I do not understand because that also makes zero sense to me, why the most flexible alignment in the game has the worst restriction of any alignment.

I agree, but that was an executive decision. More neutral choices are going to be added though.

Okan wrote:

Glowfire wrote:"When you use a calling spell to call an air, chaotic, earth, evil, fire, good, lawful, or water creature, it is a spell of that type."
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planar ... Lesser.htm

Thus, when you call an evil outsider, it becomes an evil spell.

Good characters should have a long think about when it comes to calling evil outsiders. I think the examples you raise are valid to some extent but they are best left to DM oversight.

Just be clear that is just for calling, but applies to summonings as well, most notably Summon monster line as well, we should make the same treatment for that spell line then.

This is not the reason we are restricting alignments. From a RP perspective the calling spells are circumventing the entire "negotiation of services" part by simply assuming the caster can persuade the creature to assist him. That is generally not a fair assumption of course, but the further away the creature is from the casters alignment, the worse that assumption is. So the alignment restrictions are there to keep things reasonably realistic and in check when a DM is not present. But don't forget, if you get a DM to assist you, there is no reason you couldn't call and bind an angel with your evil mage.

nAlign = GetAlignment(Caster)

If nChoice == (1,2,3,4)
If nAlign == ALIGNMENT_EVIL
{ Roll 1d10
If Roll >= 5
{SetHostileReaction = Hostile}
}

You propably get dude to work something out

I will neither confirm nor deny that I'm thinking along those lines.

With DM supervised bindings with proper magic circles and contract negotiations, can we say that these alignment restrictions would not take place?