Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

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chad878262 wrote:HiPS is not supposed to be the stealth anytime, anywhere button that it is in this game, but there are no plans to change it right now.

Right, it seems "QC" is back to being filled with a majority that has never read a single PnP source book, or even played a game of it at an actual table.

What does PnP mean?

Anyway, there was a guy, i think montaron was his name but he kept blowing up at times... so he had to go...

When it comes to HiPS in PnP, it is actually way harder to come up with scenarios where it is impossible to use this ability to hide in plain sight. After all, the feat is called Hide in Plain Sight... In fact you do not even need the ability itself, just a little bit of concealment from any source will do and it is your Hide skill against your opponent's Spot skill.

Therefore, the problem in NWN2 is that you cannot just 'randomly' attack the square where someone just vanished before your eyes. You know, try your luck against that 50% concealment, etc. in case your Spot skill fails against their Hide skill.

So please, if you just could stop making these nonsensical, unfactual, entirely uninformed claims about HiPS being 'limited' in PnP, it would look good on you. Because if you do not, well, just go to Youtube and search for 'flat-earth...'

No matter how it works in pnp, rogues wont get hips. They will get it only through PRCs

Also: you could just say:

'Hide in Plain Sight' is a far more powerful ability in NWN2 than it is in PnP, and therefore we are increasingly careful of providing new ways to acquire it.

or he could just say

We will not be adding HiPS as an available Rogue bonus feat.

wait... he already did... nevermind

Hide In Plain Sight (3.5e Skill Use)

Hide[edit]

You can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as you are within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, you can hide yourself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. You cannot, however, hide in your own shadow. You must take a -40 penalty to your hide check to do this. If you take a -80 penalty to your hide check you may use the Hide skill even while being observed regardless of your environment.

Hmmm, seems pretty clear. I updated the rogue class in the custom changes thread. Maybe if you bothered to take a look you would have an accurate understanding of the mechanics. I suppose it's easier to just say QC doesn't know what they are doing.

So how about a new prc with hips that is more rogue/theif centrist.

As chad pointed out in another thread, many prcs cost the flavor of rogue when you take them or those that don't over lap.


Further how about some new rogue centric feats.


Furthe. Hide in shadows isn't testing well for me.

I do wonder if we can adjust it to trigger off if your with in 10 feet of a player as well. This would help in many boss fights where the rooms are way to big and terrain isn't working right. Some pillars are not working. It would be a great team party addition.

A lot of our maps are very wide open and there are objects it should trigger on which isn't and I imagine to adjust would be a pain. As such I propose letting it trigger off team mates. After all it be like the ultimate distraction technique much like a stage magicition making himself disappear from site.

chad878262 wrote:

Hide In Plain Sight (3.5e Skill Use)

Hide[edit]

You can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as you are within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, you can hide yourself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. You cannot, however, hide in your own shadow. You must take a -40 penalty to your hide check to do this. If you take a -80 penalty to your hide check you may use the Hide skill even while being observed regardless of your environment.

Hmmm, seems pretty clear. I updated the rogue class in the custom changes thread. Maybe if you bothered to take a look you would have an accurate understanding of the mechanics. I suppose it's easier to just say QC doesn't know what they are doing.

What source is this? Looks like:
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Hide_In_P ... Skill_Use)

Which, if I may point out, says:
Main Page → 3.5e Homebrew → Character Options → Skill Abilities → Skill Uses

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm
And
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClass ... dancer.htm

both (and also dndtools.net) say:

Hide in Plain Sight (Su)

At 8th level, an assassin can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, an assassin can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow.

I can bring out screenshots of the sourcebooks for this.

Morale of the story is: Don't use dandwiki for your source!



EDIT: Anyways, I agree with mrm3ntalist too.

the only difference is that weird -40 /-80 modifier. The important piece is that it isn't the ability to hide anywhere, any time without restriction.

chad878262 wrote:the only difference is that weird -40 /-80 modifier. The important piece is that it isn't the ability to hide anywhere, any time without restriction.

Remember you can use your opponents Shadow.

I do wonder. Can you hide if your near your pet shadow? He is actually a shadow...

In game you can hide anywhere you damn well please!

chad878262 wrote:In game you can hide anywhere you damn well please!

In dungeons and dragons in paper and pen there is almost no where you cant hide. So point is what. .

You will be hard pressed to not find a shadow anywhere in 10 feet an intelligent character might end up. Also bring an umbrella.

Another idea for rogue special feats:

More forms of crippling strike. Add them in as rogue special feat selections, and make it so any can qualify for epic precision:

Weakening Strike:
2 CON damage on sneak attack. Requires a bludgeoning weapon.

Sapping Strike:
2 DEX damage on sneak attack. Requires a piercing weapon.

Concussing Strike:
2 INT damage on sneak attack. Requires a bludgeoning weapon.

Distracting Strike:
2 WIS damage on sneak attack. Requires a piercing weapon.

Maiming Strike:
2 CHA damage on sneak attack. Requires a slashing weapon.

Then, Crippling Strike could require a slashing weapon as well. That would give rogues some more bonus feats to choose from, and it would make multiple weapons serve different purposes. And make light hammers useful.

mrm3ntalist wrote:What does PnP mean?

I think it is called Pen and Paper, imagine that, you can play dungeons and dragons with just some sheets of paper and handful of pens, well, you still do need some dices too, but who doesn't have some random dices around somewhere?

mrm3ntalist wrote:or he could just say
We will not be adding HiPS as an available Rogue bonus feat.
wait... he already did... nevermind

Except that was not all that was said, he implied that the reason was due to 'PnP rules' that simply do not exist on the pages of source material.

chad878262 wrote:Hmmm, seems pretty clear. I updated the rogue class in the custom changes thread. Maybe if you bothered to take a look you would have an accurate understanding of the mechanics. I suppose it's easier to just say QC doesn't know what they are doing.

Thank you for updating the rogue class in the custom changes thread. It clears out how the custom feat works. Was the BGTSCC wiki updated as well?

But, unfortunately you did not quote the actual source material - but rather - some passage of homebrewed material. Dndwiki is just not a reliable source... I could go over there and edit out the passage you quoted into whatever I happen to fancy myself. Thus I would suggest you to use the actual source books or go over to d20srd, which is basically the core source books in digital format. (You are just missing the pretty images and fluff.)

And... Well, it is unfortunately factual to say that the QC doesn't know what they are doing, at times. No reason to get butthurt over this, all I have to do is point towards the 'recent' Bladesigner thread and its Evershifting Balor as an example. A creature whose stats kept changing with every single forum post that a member of the QC made. Honestly, the QC could have just looked up the stats of it, listed them down, and make their case as to why the PRC was not overpowered. There was literally no need to go through pages after pages of that Evershifting Balor Tango.

And I guess I could mention how the QC members have their history of using dndwiki as a source... For example, a few years ago there used to be a time when it was the only place Deathgrowl and mrm3ntalist went for their 'PnP rule' quotes. Egads... (Just quoting another old player...)

Historically speaking, and I am including the 'pre-QC' server time period here, the 'QC' has always had two major problems. One comes from the Dunning-Kruger Effect, and the other is the listen and believe mentality.



In the context of this discussion, I could bring up historical example of how people have adamantly insisted that when you use 'HiPS' in PnP - you are literally standing in someone else's shadow.

As for the listen and believe mentality, well here is something:

mrm3ntalist wrote:Anyway, there was a guy, i think montaron was his name but he kept blowing up at times... so he had to go...

Now, could someoneone explain how this is not a direct threat?

I mean, just imagine a slightly different scenario, a real journalist looking into some shady corporation: "Anyhow, there was a guy, he kept looking into our business... so he had to go..."

Or how about a police detective looking into some crime organization: "Anyhow, there was a guy, he kept being too nosy about these things... so he had to go..."

But anyhow, things are slowly getting better and better over here. For example time brings more experience, and these days the members of the QC tend not be DMs with trigger finger control over the ban hammer.

metaquad4 wrote:Weakening Strike:
2 CON damage on sneak attack. Requires a bludgeoning weapon.

This would be the only one I use. Simply because con damage saps a lot of HP away from monsters, thus making them easier to kill.

I think it would be considered OP for this server, as the ability would be similar to that of a Swashbuckler and not limited to just critical hits.

Also, speaking about HitS, Hide in the Shadows, it is listed to require 7 meters or 22~ feet of distance to not trigger the reflex save.

The ranged sneak attack range is 30 feet, which happens to be the Half-Elf low light vision range, and I am just looking at how long of a distance this 22 feet actually is. If the enemy is not considerably slower than our HitSing Rogue, I think it is more than likely to run into the next randomly generated enemy before you are far enough from the first.

Now that is a rogue feat to consider!

Can you lay down some stats for it Mrm3ntalist?
By the looks of it Hellball seem modest, do we have an Anarchist rogue prestige class in the works?
Or is that the end result after adding the Goblin race and the Divine Sapper class with all 10 levels?

/M

does the credibility of the graph showing the Dunning-Kruger effect decline once you notice that "No Nothing" should actually read "Know Nothing"