Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Hear hear!

Dracolich form.

Nomnomnom.

Awesome concept! horribly evil but awesome.

The only problem is that it would be INCREDIBLY broken mechanically... Undead have always been much more powerful (look at palemaster) a palemaster version of a druid would litterally be indestructible...

Not entirely, no. For example, undead cannot heal themselves in form (you'd be reliant on regenerate and regen cocoons). You wouldn't be able to cast heal on yourself. Undead can be damaged by positive energy as well as turning too.

Also, for the record, any druid can achieve the exact same immunities as undead with the spell list and dragon, elemental, or tree form's inherent immunities. So, if their stats are broken, wildshape's would be as well. And since, wildshape's aren't broken, this likely isn't either.

Undead Animal Companion: - Gives undead template to pets and to all summons.. immediately makes them stronger (some classes will be much better against them sure.)

Deforestation: - Cool idea, lots of RP potential but if this is the case then what about us good druids who can restore areas? Also damage to plants and animals..(long cooldown kind of makes this balanced but still a free ability...)

Blightfire: Aoe damage not too bad, with owls wisdom DC will be pretty good. (another free ability)

Desecrate: (great give me consecrate please!)

Contagious Touch: Effectively 11 points of stat drain to str con and dex to someone... with a decent DC.. thats insane even if its over time.

Undead Wild Shape: Still think this is a little unbalanced. you are gaining a lot of potential power and the "cant be healed" doesnt really matter since rejuv and regen are better than heal anyway as it caps at 150.

Plauge: 1d3.... stat drain... 10 rounds.. thats 30 points of those stats on a failed save...

Incoporeal Wild Shape: Wild shape with concealment... lovely... because we arent hard enough to kill already.

Wilderness Destruction: More DC to already incredibly high DC spells... no. we dont need it.

Horrid Wilting: Free SLA...

Dragolich Wildshape: Ufff again same issue im seeing with undead shapes. wildshape really really doesnt need anything more added to it..

Epic feats.

Living Undeath: Kinda useless... undead shape gives you all of those no matter what shape you take.

Shed Corporeal Form: 50% concealment that cant be dispelled.... thats kinda broken.

The blighter can use any of its own special abilities in this wildshape form, and it can use spells if it has the "unnatural spell" feat.

Only if i can use all my spells, epic spells and combat modes/feats ETC while shifted... which would be even more broken. "Dragon shape that can use knockdown or Greater Ruin vampire feast etc" seems fair right?

Im all for making druids more interesting and having alternative kits and such but this here is WAAAAAY over the top. you get a whole bunch of free spells, spell like abilities stronger DC and stronger shapes? for what? "oh im evil and i hate life" .......

This just has a lot of potential to be literally indestructible.

If you take elemental shape you get immunity to crits and sneak aye.. thats elementals. but you lose a lot of stats the dragon has. Dragons are not immune to crits and sneak attacks and yes some spells can help but those spells can also be removed or waited out.

Part of being good with shapes is picking the right shape to fight the right enemy. If i could turn in to a Dracolich i would just do that and literally stomp on everything in the game with absolutely no problem.

30 Druids currently get mid 600s in HP, 15/- DR, 65 AC (69 if you put on a short-term buff, 73 if you use items) in their forms. Plus 25-40 damage when hitting with around a 40 AB. Plus immunity to mind effects+sneak attacks, death ward+freedom of movement's bonuses too. You can put on oaken resilience and get all the immunities of a plant (crits, etc.). Also, dragon shape gets 120 temps per casting.

Not to mention you can fully buff up your animal companion (if you chose right, you'll be pretty close, if not the same, in power to a 30 fighter PC without UMD) to fight with you.

Also, if you know anything about how AB/Crits work, you'll know having a certain amount of AC essentially makes you immune to crits, based on the fact that they can't finish the threat roll. But, if you want to be ultra safe, you do have oaken resilience.

You want to pick the right shape for the right enemy on a druid? I'll save you the trouble: Red Dragon Form.

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Aside from what druids get:

--Animal companions are as good as they are, because a druid can buff them up fully. Undead are not animals, are thus are not impacted by quite a few spells (Greater Magic Fang, Jagged Tooth). Plus, Blighters would be unable to cast nature's avatar and awaken. The same goes for the blighter's undead shapes. Because they aren't animals/elementals/dragons, they are not effected by these buffs.

I just went ahead and added those to the spells it can't cast, since it really can't use them.

--Deforestation is kinda one of the more "signature" or well-known abilities of a blighter. The druid equivalent is using their magic to regrow plants, plus a bit of work. RP!

--Heal is pretty important for a druid's sustainability in a real fight. Most bosses, you generally want a few on hand. And for PvP, even more so.

--My druid had consecrate! (Hint: Gloves). Desecrate does help compensate for the fact that you won't have greater magic fang, jagged tooth, etc.

--Contagious touch: Against NPCs without deathward/ability score immunity, it'll be devastating in a long-term fight. Anyone can pop a deathward wand, and lesser restoration potions are rather cheap, for PvP. For most PvE, you won't really see the full results. That'll be reserved for boss fights and long events (assuming the creatures can be effected by it). Also, of course, it'll be useful for spreading disease in RP.

--Plague: Same as contagious touch, with an added fort save and an AoE impact.

--Incoporeal Wildshape: Someone's never used a displacement item before It also probably won't have as high stats as dragolich or undead animal shape. Likely more DEX, making it the "air elemental" shape for Blighters.

--Wilderness Destruction: Sure, but it adds flavor. It could add just CL instead.

--Horrid Wilting: You've got it!

--Dragolich Wildshape: See above.

--Living Undeath: Your diseases can spread, even to you. This is to protect yourself while you spread them among a crowd in human form. But, you'd have to be careful as you would become physically noticeable if you remained too long.

--Shed Corporeal Form: Who said it can't be dispelled?

--Epic Feats in wildshape: Are they Blighter's specific abilities? No? Then they can't be used in wildshape. General Feats and Epic Feats still wouldn't work, only class feats would.

You are asking for a powered up druid... who's only real weakness is "cant be healed" (you have harm by the way) and cant have 2 buffs... both of which are easily replaced... and a whole bunch of free spell like abilities that other classes have to sacrifice for.

People complain enough about druids being overpowered and you want to add basicly the undead template to that?

just my two cents here, have been noticing the increase in druids lately myself in included, but 90% of them think anyone can admit for the dragon form. But being said how a bit of a butt they are, 'oh dragon shape now you can't really hurt me'.

As I've said to wolf with so many around, a druid 'killer' is needed the thing what little understanding here is okay fine something that can stand up to a druid, how does that fair for other class's like rogues / fighters/ knights/ paladins/ not druids, the undead would make easy picking for paladins and clerics (rp and pvp ) as a blighters weakness but just a circle now, druids to blighter to pala circle you're not one of these your left out.

In short, I find myself agreeing druid population is getting bigger cuz everyone wants a dragon, do kinda need something to deal with the druid population increase.

But my natural gamer instincts, everyone wants to play the strongest, so whats to stop the other population of this kit without restrictions, besides locking it down as an application pcr.

Ariexedes wrote:just my two cents here, have been noticing the increase in druids lately myself in included, but 90% of them think anyone can admit for the dragon form. But being said how a bit of a butt they are, 'oh dragon shape now you can't really hurt me'.

As I've said to wolf with so many around, a druid 'killer' is needed the thing what little understanding here is okay fine something that can stand up to a druid, how does that fair for other class's like rogues / fighters/ knights/ paladins/ not druids, the undead would make easy picking for paladins and clerics (rp and pvp ) as a blighters weakness but just a circle now, druids to blighter to pala circle you're not one of these your left out.

In short, I find myself agreeing druid population is getting bigger cuz everyone wants a dragon, do kinda need something to deal with the druid population increase.

But my natural gamer instincts, everyone wants to play the strongest, so whats to stop the other population of this kit without restrictions, besides locking it down as an application pcr.

People tend to play the "flavor of the month class" and move on naturally. It happens, and if we apped a class every time it happened, every class would be locked down by now. Druid seems to be the flavor of the month right now. Or perhaps not. Usually, we barely have any druids active. So, in relative terms, we have lots of druids running around. But really, there are only a handful.

As far as blighters being a druid killer, I doubt that'd be the case. I think if anything, they'd be able to fight each other to a stalemate (anyone who has ever tried druid vs druid PvP knows where that goes). With druids having a slight upperhand due to there being no defense like deathward against the "heal" spell. As far as druids being "the strongest", I'd disagree. They are strong, and I think most people wouldn't know how to beat one. But they are pretty easily countered, once you learn exactly what to do (most classes have the capacity to beat a druid). Maybe I'll share that knowledge in tips and tricks later

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Wolfrayne wrote:You are asking for a powered up druid... who's only real weakness is "cant be healed" (you have harm by the way) and cant have 2 buffs... both of which are easily replaced... and a whole bunch of free spell like abilities that other classes have to sacrifice for.

People complain enough about druids being overpowered and you want to add basicly the undead template to that?

The people who complain about druids being overpowered probably haven't either played a druid (most druid players who are paying attention should know exactly how to nail a druid) or haven't had a friend who plays a druid (for the above reason).

This sounds like a kneejerk reaction for me. I mean, you don't even know what the stats are for the forms. Obviously, they should be stats that make the forms useful. But, neither of us know that yet. For all you know, they could be 10/10/10. Would your statement still hold up then?

Also, what replaces greater magic fang and jagged fang? That is right, nothing. And, you cannot cast harm on yourself. Try it and find out!

Come on, wolf. Don't bait me like this. You are a druid player, you should know your class!

Druid is the most op class i ever played...The only way to die on a druid is if you screw up and dont run of.
And trust me getting away on a druid is sooooooooo easy if you dont want to die you simply wont.

So reading this post i feel the need to say NO plz dont implement this it would be so over the top.

And tbh druids need to be toned down a little bit.

The other way to die is to get dispelled or breached. Which is, incidentally, the best way to face a druid in PvP. And a way any character can.

If we're going to balance the Blighter, it would need to lose its CON (set it to 10 for all forms) but give it extra 4 HP/Level (Druid d8 vs undead d12).

Also, all undead forms and companions would need to be Turnable. As well as affected by anything that harms/destroys undead.

When you turn into Undead, you're suddenly vulnerable to anything that harms the undead.
Hello Paladins and Morninglords. Also an undead monster wandering around makes you an auto-consent PvP target.

It shouldn't be a Druid with extra evil/undead stuff. It should come with ALL the undead weaknesses.

It should probably be slightly stronger than the base Druid but that's the point of taking a corrupt and Evil path. You seek power. You also make more enemies instantly. Same with Pale Master, you want power, you make enemies.

Most leave Druids alone, either Good or Evil. Not so with Blighters.
Suddenly Druids, Paladins and Morninglords, as well as undead hunters and Good PCs want to destroy you.

Must admit I will be very sad if druid becomes the best undead themed class on the server.

Deathgrowl wrote:Must admit I will be very sad if druid becomes the best undead themed class on the server.

Probably looks that way because its a base class. Dread Necromancer next! Maybe a sorcerer kit? (Might be the easiest way to do it, idk)

Deathgrowl wrote:Must admit I will be very sad if druid becomes the best undead themed class on the server.

Well, in PnP, (Fallen) Paladins make the best Blackguards.
It makes some twisted kind of sense that the best undead themed class is the fallen Druid.
Embracing all that is unnatural. Undead summons, undead shape and undead companion.

It's sad that the Blighter is such a bad class in PnP. But here it can be something better if it happens.

Personally, I think it would be cool to see Blackguard turned into a paladin kit. Or perhaps a blackguard option in there.

That aside, yeah. I think kits have the potentially to give a lot of classes some neat options. Just need to use that potential.