Flame Blade and Moon Blade

[Calantyr]

Only a very small number of builds can even use Moon Blade due to the required domain. Is it OP if you are mandated so worship only 2 or 3 gods?

[metaquad4]

What is we gave all Grumbar worshipers a domain that gives +20 dodge AC? Its only one god, is it really OP if you are mandated to worship only 1 god?

Yes. Yes it is. It doesn't matter how many gods can worship the domain. If its powerful, its powerful. How limited a character is in taking it doesn't really matter.

[chad878262]

What is we gave all Grumbar worshipers a domain that gives +20 dodge AC? Its only one god, is it really OP if you are mandated to worship only 1 god?

Yes. Yes it is. It doesn't matter how many gods can worship the domain. If its powerful, its powerful. How limited a character is in taking it doesn't really matter.

This is a really good statement. RP can easily be created to fit obtaining a strong ability.

[Nemni]

I also detest nerfs but that's why it's important to not introduce something OP that will have to be nerfed once players have already gotten used to having it. I would suggest capping moon blade at 1d8+20 against undead and switching it from positive to electrical damage, or something.

[LuvHandles]

I don't feel what we've discussed here paints an accurate picture of the realities of the moon blade. We seem to be fixated on the damage output vs undead at caster level 30. There are draw backs as well that have not been addressed. I would ask that before folks make suggestions about tweaks to the implementation, that you create a character that can cast the spell and try it out yourself. That's what the devs did when they created the new implementation and I think it might change your perspective.

[Nemni]

There are draw backs as well that have not been addressed.

What are the draw backs?

[metaquad4]

I've been testing out moonblade. Essentially, it does equal damage (or slightly higher, since it isn't subject to DR. But, clerics have a few spells like align weapon that let them bypass DR too.) to a lower-end wisdom cleric wielding a weapon. It is, however, subject to SR.

It does less damage that a STR cleric or an EDM cleric would, for certain. The damage bonuses from cleric alone (never mind weapons with extra damage, EDM, domain spells, or power attack) are about 14. Then EDM does at-least 14 (21 CHA+3 CHA = 7 CHA) on its own, and power attack ranges from 6 damage (sword and board) and 12 damage (singe-wielding). Not to mention STR damage, which varies from 5 (20 STR is usual for a WIS cleric) to 7 (21 STR+3) for an EDM cleric to 12 or 13 for a STR cleric. That STR damage is also multiplied by 1*5 for single-wielding a weapon. Plus, you can always pick up rouge or monk for evasion, as expose weakness can do a fair bit as well.

It has slightly more utility, though. It is very much a caster cleric weapon. It does do higher damage against undead however than a wisdom cleric (probably on the same level or slightly lower than a STR cleric and lower than an EDM cleric). But that is fair, given their focus on destroying undead. Plus, other clerics do have other damage buffs (plus, you have your weapon's properties too) for fighting such.

I'm inclined to say its not too powerful, after actually testing it. Its a lateral (side-ways, rather than up/more powerful or down/less power) move. It doesn't benefit from any damage boosting effects (IPA, EDM, Cleric Spells, Weapon Enchantments) which can all increase damage output above what it can do, so its damage really is "capped". But, its also more difficult to resist and has a useful secondary effect.

Bug: Moonblade doesn't seem to fire off against Wrymthrax, the boss in the Naga Caves. It doesn't work against the topaz wyrmling or the Dragolich either. I suspect the script has difficulty hitting large targets.