More options for Dm Rewards.

[Nemni]

Being in a DM event should be rewarding enough, for the story being told, for the chance at seeing a dynamic server, for the small possibility of maybe putting a mark on the server timeline. I see no reason why people who are fortunate enough to see many such events should also be rewarded with mechanical power. Cosmetics, titles and such are just fine, but not power.

Yes grandfathered items are ridiculous, or so I think. What one player achieves should be possible for another player to achieve with equal investment. Anything else seem obviously unfair to me. But having DMs hand out more adanamite weapons don't seem like a great solution to me.

[Calodan]

Everyone who says RP is enough! I fully cherish this place for what it is and I fully enjoy being able to say I was a part of it! Those things should always be a big part of enjoyment for sure!

There are two very distinct populations here. I guess we can for easy purposes call them grinders and campfire story tellers. BOTH have RP in them! Just one enjoys the mechanical aspects of the game and doing raids and things of that nature utilizing the servers excellent dungeons of enormous non-loot. The other enjoys story based relations made through meaningful interaction socially. Neither gets along fully but neither does each fully hate each other either. I see a very large server population that is and has always worked quite well together and occasionally even RP together.

What this thread aims to address is a very large elephant in the room for some of us on the server. The devoid hole to make and customize our own gear to our PC level and maybe even perceived power. Also I feel there was a need to address the idea of DMs being able to get these things more often to players who have earned them and also maybe finally establishing a fair system that establishes good guidelines for items awarded than the current one which seems to be faulty at best. By establishing a good system this allows more DMs to be what they want to be. It may yet save other DMs from awarding things they should not have in a sense because there is a system in place to just have the player earn it rightfully. All a player need do is send in application with tokens.

For the record I do not even care about the GF items. I just care that we can somehow find a way to establish a fair system for this going forward. I also understand that we the people are not the ones who can really make this happen but I really think this is something the server should look at. I tip my hat to those with savvy to get great things in DM events! It can be done people! Just as AC81 once said to me. PUT IN THE WORK. Yes you have to work for it a little.....

[aaron22]

this would create a conundrum for me. i play orc and events do not often come in my direction and generating RP is often met with little to no notice. and that is ok. i accepted this as the path i want to walk. eventually i want to make playing orc more noticeable. somewhere near dwarf or hin. anyway. if i knew there were powerful rewards to being noticed, why would i want to be so audacious. why try to carve the path when rewards await those that follow the majority.

and i am sure there are a great many of you that would see abandoning orc RP as an added benefit. right now, as it stands, i already lose a lot by playing on the fringe. but the ends still outweighs the means for me. unsure if that would be the case if being a sheep was this much better than being the shepherd.

[metaquad4]

Rewards shouldn't just be for being noticed. Rewards (as I mentioned in my idea) should be given for STARTING RP. We should encourage more players to start RP, rather than just jump into RP and try as much as possible to take it over. Players need more to do outside of DM events and the like, and players who try to fill that void with RP they create should be rewarded.

[Calodan]

this would create a conundrum for me. i play orc and events do not often come in my direction and generating RP is often met with little to no notice. and that is ok. i accepted this as the path i want to walk. eventually i want to make playing orc more noticeable. somewhere near dwarf or hin. anyway. if i knew there were powerful rewards to being noticed, why would i want to be so audacious. why try to carve the path when rewards await those that follow the majority.

and i am sure there are a great many of you that would see abandoning orc RP as an added benefit. right now, as it stands, i already lose a lot by playing on the fringe. but the ends still outweighs the means for me. unsure if that would be the case if being a sheep was this much better than being the shepherd.

Not sure I understand your statement? Can you clarify? I do not want to assume anything if I respond.

I think you are saying that a token system would be unfair to players that play your style of RP?

Do you not interact with others at all? The tokens can be awarded for RP XP. You know the little ticks that happen when you talk to others? So it is not just tied to DM events only. As well DMs can hand them out to anyone they feel made a meaningful impact as they are on perusing the server. What about opening up token awards for forum RP? I.E. Journals and the like?

What I am really trying to do is get you involved in a meaningful discussion rather than just say that would be no good for me. How is it no good? How can this idea be worked to be fair for all? I personally do not accept just saying it is bad for me. However that is your opinion and I do not think it is wrong. I just think we can come to a compromise or even better a solution!

[aaron22]

@cal
my RP with others is often very random and variable. sometimes the player(s) i run into are of an opposing race/align, so depending upon the player it can be anywhere from clear and instant PvP to in depth conversations on ideology. sometimes i can just plain drop the ball on my part of the RP. it happens. Im not perfect. i can also go a month or so without running into anyone. i dont hang out at the FAI. so to think that these rare occurrences will be noticed is not naive. most of my RP takes place on the forums and they are just glimpses of the big picture. I am not a practiced writer so blocks of inability come up. I have more general ideas than i have skill in writing and i dont want to be too presumptive when it comes to RP ideas against where the server admin's invisible barriers of what is acceptable or desirable. generally speaking it is likely i get about 400 RP xp a month and 0 event xp (maybe 1000 a year). while i want to change this to be comparable to the base norm, i cannot assume that it will be.

I brought this up merely to speak from a side that may not be accounted for. but i think i speak for the ones that fight to maintain solid dwarf focal RP. and hin focal RP as well. not that i want to leave that limited to just those either. perhaps thayan RP may go through similar RP ebbs and flows or Darkhold too. i do not know. i am not really in the same set of sabatons.

i hope i gave you a better glimpse of what i intended to say. this is not totally about me, but it is about players like me that strive to do what they like even if they know it is not inside the majority of the server's RP desires.

[chad878262]

There is no RP with Orcs Aaron, Orcs are XP!

Just kidding of course, on topic it would be great if there was one DM online for every 8 players at all times, but that is just never going to happen. I like Metaquads suggestion where "tokens" can be granted for events, rarely found in chests, while fishing or after X amount of RP XP gain. Anything that allows multiple ways to obtain the same reward as a player regardless of the type of play you engage in is a good mechanic in my opinion. As a server we state that we support multiple play styles and in game rewards should be attuned to support the same.

[aaron22]

There is no RP with Orcs Aaron, Orcs are XP!

humans and elves are XP too. and easier to kill.... sorry 'bout yo bad luck

[The] stated CR [of some areas] is quite wildly different from the real difficulty. [Here] is a list of the CR on a bunch of surface areas, sorted by CR (I don't know anything about Underdark so I skipped it).

Soubar well : CR 0.5
East Chionthar : CR 1
BG, graveyard : CR 1.5
BG, graveyard cave : CR 2
Soubar ruins : CR 2
Kobolds : CR 2
Bladelings : CR 2.5
BG, east gate sewers : CR 2.5
Trade Way, south of BG : CR 2.5
Soubar, Bane temple : CR 2.5
Boareskyr Bridge bears : CR 3
Gibberling : CR 3
East Chionthar ruins : CR 3
BG, palace's district sewers : CR 4
East cloakwood : CR 4
Boareskyr : CR 4
Lion's way : CR 5-6
Ant burrow : CR 6
North of Beregost, goblins : CR 6
Cloakwood mine, level 1-2-3 : CR 6
Ulgoth's island : CR 6
Goblin mine : CR 7
Thundar's Ride : CR 7
Bridgefort : CR 7
BG, sewer bowels : CR 8
High Hedge : CR 8
Sharp Teeth : CR 8
Lion's way gnolls : CR 8
Cloakwood central : CR 8
Dragonspear exterior and castle : CR 9
Minotaurs : CR 10
BG, Undercity : CR 10
Hags : CR 12
North-west Cloakwood : CR 12
Chionthar, west : CR 12
Uldoon's trail : CR 13
Haunted house, level 1 : CR 13
Skuldaask's cave : CR 13
Haunted house, level 2 : CR 14
High Moor south : CR 14
Ulgoth's pirate : CR 14
Xvarts : CR 14
Fields of the dead : CR 14 on average
Elder Ogre stronghold : CR 15
Misty forest : CR 15
Gullykin crypt : CR 15
South of Beregost : CR 15
Fields of the dead, crypt : CR 15-16
Ulcaster : CR 16 (yes 16)
Ogre cave : CR 16
Corm Orp : CR 16
Durlag's exterior : CR 16
Durlag's tower : CR 16
Nashkel foothills : CR 16
Nashkel's mine exterior : CR 16-17
Troll Claws : CR 18 on average
Durlag's labyrinth 1-2 : CR 19
Nashkel's mine : CR 19
Cloud peaks : CR 19
Troll cave : CR 20
Yuan-ti hills : CR 20
Searing tunnels and searing caverns : CR 21
Haunted house, level 3 : CR 21
Ice cave : CR 22
Durlag's labyrinth 3 : CR 22
Spirit troll cave : CR 23
Wyrm's cave : CR 23
Yuan-ti temple : CR 23
Reaching woods : CR 23
Lizard cave : CR 23
Stone giants : CR 24
Vault, level 1 : CR 24
Forest of Wyrms : CR 24
Vault, level 2 : CR 25
Frost giants : CR 27
Graypeaks : CR 27
Speartop : CR 28
Vault, level 3 : CR 29
Netherese maze : CR 29

[Valefort]

So you get an unbreakable fishing pole if you make 10k exp through fishing ? Congrats

This idea is a recipe for more jealousy and goes in the opposite direction of what has been done with the addition of the epic shops. Given enough time the power difference would be even more important between newcomers and old timers than what it is now, it could become a DM reward competition with PvP in mind, a good recipe for headaches... it'll also underlines the timezone differences and overall give more power to PCs, all around terrible consequences.

If you want to tackle the problem of grandfathered items (which is so small a problem that admins never felt the need to take action) then a fairer solution is for the DM team to review the items that are floating around and tweak them down for those that are deemed overpowered compared to what's available.

[chad878262]

Hmmm... I thought we were talking about rewards that were lesser or inline with what is already available...Not more power creep. The Dalelands was provided as an example, but I hope no one is advocating for increasing the power of what you can purchase/find today, as that is an entirely separate discussion. This is just a different method of obtaining similar stuff with some personalization/RP flare unless I missed something.

[metaquad4]

As I mentioned, the numbers can easily be tuned to fit our server's needs. Suggestions shouldn't be about straight numbers, at-least not most of the time. That is for developers to fine-tune. I suggested daleland's method, for the principle of the idea. People get rewards for their effort, but the DMs don't necessarily have to give them directly. Again, I think that it would be better if we aren't trying to foster jealousy:

Five people get an RP token at the conclusion of an event, which they can spend on items, gold, or XP.

One person gets an epic item, one person gets a subpar item, the rest get gold/XP.

It doesn't necessarily have to be devoid of RP either. For example:

1) You want to turn in your RP token for an item. The DM spawns a merchant who approaches your character to peddle your character goods. The DM takes the RP token, RPing it as its value in gold and gives your character the item you requested.

2) You want to turn in your RP token for gold. A family or a group thanks your character for actions they performed during an event, and gifts your character gold via a courier. The courier delivers it in a package to your character, along with a note of thanks.

Dalelands didn't go this extra mile, as their DMs were often on doing events. But, if a DM has time, that would be interesting as well. Heck, even if a DM doesn't have time a player can still RP these events transpiring.

[Nemni]

So you would get tokens from events, looting, fishing and with RP XP. You use tokens to buy items. Besides also getting it for talking, how is this different than gold?

Imo, considering the DM coverage, the server should create more stuff to do for players without DM interactions, not make DMs even more crucial.

[metaquad4]

So you would get tokens from events, looting, fishing and with RP XP. You use tokens to buy items. Besides also getting it for talking, how is this different than gold?

Imo, considering the DM coverage, the server should create more stuff to do for players without DM interactions, not make DMs even more crucial.

Rewards can be given for such. Forum write-ups, screenshots, etc.

The best way to do this, though, is to facilitate faction vs faction RP (not just PvP either. Infiltration, diplomacy, information gathering, etc.). Metaplots do well for this as well. A war at the center of a metaplot where players can join either of the factions in the war and fight for them. There doesn't have to be only two factions either.

But, there seems to be a trend on this server where players are afraid of feeling isolated from the main parts of the server (aka team good) and thus do their best not to do anything that might upset them. That needs to go. There needs to be some interplay between factions (factions doing what they are supposed to do, and butting heads, pissing each other off, going to war, making tentative peace, scheming for their own goals, etc.). But, that is up to factions as well. This can't happen magically on its own. DMs can help by using NPCs to cause straining relations between factions though. DMs can spin the wheel and occasionally keep it rolling via events, while players play out what happens while its spinning. That would be ideal.

Even stuff like rebuilding cities, etc. doesn't work well. Things that require NPCs or can only really significantly be done on the forums aren't enough. Players need to butt heads with each other (and again, factions are easy because each has different goals and different ideals that probably shouldn't coexist and hold hands 24/7) in order for people to have something to do all the time.

[dedude]

Very much agree with Valeforts post.

DM rewards should be about IC lore/story/RP, not mechanical pwn. The game can handle the mechanical part. Loot is dropping left and right. But only a DM can give your character a rich story, a title, a finger cut from a dukes hand, etc.

[Calodan]

So you would get tokens from events, looting, fishing and with RP XP. You use tokens to buy items. Besides also getting it for talking, how is this different than gold?

Imo, considering the DM coverage, the server should create more stuff to do for players without DM interactions, not make DMs even more crucial.

The items have custom enchantments you want put on them which only DMs can do. This is not like gold as I can not go to a DM and RP hiring a enchanter to custom make an item for me. With tokens one can submit said item after having done it themselves with the toolset according to the fancy thread on this website and just get it approved and submitted. Easy to do actually.

So you get an unbreakable fishing pole if you make 10k exp through fishing ? Congrats

This idea is a recipe for more jealousy and goes in the opposite direction of what has been done with the addition of the epic shops. Given enough time the power difference would be even more important between newcomers and old timers than what it is now, it could become a DM reward competition with PvP in mind, a good recipe for headaches... it'll also underlines the timezone differences and overall give more power to PCs, all around terrible consequences.

If you want to tackle the problem of grandfathered items (which is so small a problem that admins never felt the need to take action) then a fairer solution is for the DM team to review the items that are floating around and tweak them down for those that are deemed overpowered compared to what's available.

Something tells me you missed the point. This is not about GF items. This is about a system of reward that is fair and instituting a custom item system that can be done with very little modifications to the server. As in we are talking about putting in a token to the loot lists that can spawn rarely as loot and other means. I.E. DM events as well. All this really needs is a structure and post thread. Not the Dalelands stuff of course but something that is on par with this servers standards of items. Right now the only way to get custom items is with apparently years of RP.....That is a bit too much in my opinion and I think it high time the server staff get on board with something like this.

@cal
my RP with others is often very random and variable. sometimes the player(s) i run into are of an opposing race/align, so depending upon the player it can be anywhere from clear and instant PvP to in depth conversations on ideology. sometimes i can just plain drop the ball on my part of the RP. it happens. Im not perfect. i can also go a month or so without running into anyone. i dont hang out at the FAI. so to think that these rare occurrences will be noticed is not naive. most of my RP takes place on the forums and they are just glimpses of the big picture. I am not a practiced writer so blocks of inability come up. I have more general ideas than i have skill in writing and i dont want to be too presumptive when it comes to RP ideas against where the server admin's invisible barriers of what is acceptable or desirable. generally speaking it is likely i get about 400 RP xp a month and 0 event xp (maybe 1000 a year). while i want to change this to be comparable to the base norm, i cannot assume that it will be.

I brought this up merely to speak from a side that may not be accounted for. but i think i speak for the ones that fight to maintain solid dwarf focal RP. and hin focal RP as well. not that i want to leave that limited to just those either. perhaps thayan RP may go through similar RP ebbs and flows or Darkhold too. i do not know. i am not really in the same set of sabatons.

i hope i gave you a better glimpse of what i intended to say. this is not totally about me, but it is about players like me that strive to do what they like even if they know it is not inside the majority of the server's RP desires.

It does. I don't see how instituting this system is any different for this though. How does opposing this do anything for that which you are talking about? How does it even apply? You did mention that you do forum RP. I had suggested we also give tokens for that. There are some great forum RP'ers here and I think something like this might encourage others as well to step outside their box and try their hands at being writers! So by giving multiple avenues to earn this reward you put it in the hands of those who want the reward to put in the time and work to get it. In essence you get out what you put in. A true system where one has a measurable way to earn this.