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Re: Elementals and their odd differences

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:37 pm
by Sun Wukong
The elementals are more or less on the same line. If you compare the Shadow and Ice elemental, the former gets better AB while the latter gets the better defensive stats. But I would have to agree that the Fire/Ice Elementals seems to get most out of their stats.

But it doesn't mean that the other elementals are without their use. For example, if you look at Water Elemental it actually has the best saves among all the elementals. Give it immunity to mind affecting through Lesser Mind Blank, and buff its saves with Greater Heroism and Superior Resistance and it is less likely to die on enemy caster's save or die spells. From recent memory the Ogre Chieftain in the ogre cave can throw few DC 25 Destruction spells, and the water elemental will only die on a roll of one, a 5%~ chance. As for the fire/ice elemental, it has about 30% chance to die with the same defensive buffs. Therefore, the water elemental is the better choice to pick against areas with large amounts of save or die mob casters.

Now, it doesn't change the fact how the Fire Elemental will get extra damage due to fire weaknesses or how it is just plain handy against trolls of the Troll Claw Fjord. But even the lowest damage of the Air Elemental has its use because it has the highest base AC. Higher base AC means that it will be hit less and that translates to ability to tank, thus if the caster himself is the one that deals the majority of damage, the air elemental can act as a very useful distraction.

Re: Elementals and their odd differences

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:10 am
by Babuguuscooties
Fair enough. I was noting some of these things when taking the screenshots. It may very well be that any changes are either unnecessary, or just not worth the trouble. I did notice my air elemental knocking down an enemy for once lol. Imagine my shock!


In conclusion, I do see your points. Maybe once some more CR 25 areas are added there will be more situational uses for the more niche elementals. Regardless, I appreciate the discussion and explaining some of these things to me, SW.


NOTE: Should I really add these to the wiki? I couldn't tell if Valefort was patronizing me or not :P

Re: Elementals and their odd differences

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:16 am
by Sun Wukong
It would be good to have them on the wiki, along with all other summons from multitude of spells and class abilities.

Re: Elementals and their odd differences

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:36 am
by Babuguuscooties
Sun Wukong wrote:It would be good to have them on the wiki, along with all other summons from multitude of spells and class abilities.
I may need a quick guide on how to go about doing this lol. I don't mind doing it though. I'm ashamed to say I've never edited a wiki before! :oops:

Re: Elementals and their odd differences

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:53 am
by Nemni
NOTE: Should I really add these to the wiki? I couldn't tell if Valefort was patronizing me or not :P
You really should, if you have the time and the info. I added some information for creature9 some days ago: https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title ... reature_IX
All you have to do is create an account, click edit and fill in whatever seems relevant.

Re: Elementals and their odd differences

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:49 pm
by Tekill
Babuguuscooties wrote:In conclusion, I do see your points.
How dare you say such a thing on an Internet forum!!!

Re: Elementals and their odd differences

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:29 am
by Hawke
PaulImposteur wrote:I'd argue that equal stats would increase variety. A simple example is how everyone is using those angelic summons because of their clear superiority to other summons.

Actually Summons IX is pretty freaking good too.

The problem is (except the lion running around like he is slowed) elementals are huge. Planar summons are Normal to Large. MUCH easier for pathing.