Request to Area Builders: More CR 25+ areas

[aaron22]

that gold bag is pennies compared to what the chests hold. if it went away nobody would notice.

[aaron22]

and harder content does not mean more powerbuilding. it is the opposite becuase powerbuilding would not get you to an endgame. being a better group player would.

if you dont get it, you just dont get it. and you will only know what i am talking about if you experience it.

[Valefort]

I think I do ! Little story .. once I went with a group of 5 and killed the dracolich, none of those 5 PCs had energy immunity spell in any way or form and half didn't have evasion either. Needless to say the dracolich dealt huge damage to us ! It was an epic long battle to take it down but we managed to do so eventually. What was particularly funny is that a lone FS/BG/Rogue was looking at us, he would have killed it alone in half the time we did.

Who had the most fun ?

My point here is that the content is already hard enough to promote grouping, the ones who don't need to group are powerbuilds and making harder content will make them more relevant, which is a bad idea.

[Glowfire]

Would very much like to see more higher level areas in the Upperdark. Means both surfacers and UDers get to enjoy them.

Also makes for more fun grouping up in guild adventures, as Bregan D'aerthe for example have both drow and surfacers. The Upperdark promotes some more RP between the two halves without having to be topside.

[aaron22]

My point here is that the content is already hard enough to promote grouping, the ones who don't need to group are powerbuilds and making harder content will make them more relevant, which is a bad idea.

you're not understanding....

you enter the final room to battle a dracolich. you can kill a dracolish. you got this. and you start the fight and the dracolich keeps hitting you with GSB. ok this could cause a problem. but im bringing it down and sustaining the damage well. ok half down and what is this.... two doors slide open what is that? two shadow beholders and about 10 helmed horrors? blast blast blast solo guy dead. didnt have a chance.

so what can mr solo powerbuilder do? well he can get a couple friends to help and then it would be fine hard nand things would have needed to go perfect. but solo. this is not happening

[Nemni]

that gold bag is pennies compared to what the chests hold. if it went away nobody would notice.

I disagree. The certainty of gold is often nicer than the small chance of finding something good. Unless you already have so much gold that it doesn't matter anymore.

[Valefort]

you're not understanding....

you enter the final room to battle a dracolich. you can kill a dracolish. you got this. and you start the fight and the dracolich keeps hitting you with GSB. ok this could cause a problem. but im bringing it down and sustaining the damage well. ok half down and what is this.... two doors slide open what is that? two shadow beholders and about 10 helmed horrors? blast blast blast solo guy dead. didnt have a chance.

so what can mr solo powerbuilder do? well he can get a couple friends to help and then it would be fine hard nand things would have needed to go perfect. but solo. this is not happening

That's exactly what should'nt happen .. because the group of 5 PCs of my story above wouldn't actually stand a chance. Who cares if a powerbuilder can solo something ? The difficulty is there, don't beat it by powerbuilding.

[aaron22]

That's exactly what should'nt happen .. because the group of 5 PCs of my story above wouldn't actually stand a chance. Who cares if a powerbuilder can solo something ? The difficulty is there, don't beat it by powerbuilding.

because it creates a model. the model that most use to build on this server. the solo build. which is fine. if that is what you guys want. i was just offering an alternative. take it. leave it. whatever.

i did not say your group should/could do the quest. i said that it would be for a group of good players that push further than CR29. it would be for a well rounded group of good players that could be challenged by the aspects of the monsters and solo would die. fast. a group with a solid cleric can make this work by having several castings of death ward with heals and restorations. the rest of the group would be required to keep the attention off the cleric so he can keep everyone functioning. prolly want some ranged to handle the beholders when they pop. get them down fast. could even have some secret doors that need high search and high lock pick to get into to limit the numbers of beholders when the doors open. a lever to pull that shuts one of the beholder doors or something. the doors open the lever slides. pull the lever again and a door quickly closes. solo you would be stuck with all the doors opening and and certain death.

[Steve]

Wasn't there talk of having some Areas custom-adjust the mobs, based on the Level (+/- Class/PrC/whathaveyou) of the Character(s) that are there?

Essentially, challenge becomes more random, thus...MORE FUN!!

[Valefort]

Oh making a function to evaluate accurately a group's power ? That is easy ... no, that's so hard I don't know where to start.

That said, expect more random.. and aaron I proposed several area based changes to limiting solo play if you read, it's just that the "more powerful monsters" card must not be pulled, it's a trap and a spiral to power creep, which is not fun in the slightest. Unoptimized builds must remain relevant throughout whole content to guarantee build, and thus RP, diversity.

[Steve]

I have noticed a few Areas spawning some previously unseen mobs, within. That has been cool to see, though I thought it was a DM leaving them around, or, an Area changed because of Storylines/Events.

Cause even if Areas have the chance to spawn different combinations of mobs, the Player-learned issues of "what to prepare for to go to X area" will become obsolete, thus...a new challenge!! Hurrah!

I might be impossible to script/evaluate a groups power, but the Server did have custom scripts to adjust mob intensity based on PCs in the group+Area at that time. I don't know how much of that script is still functioning on BGTSCC, but when it was, it was meant to give Groups a greater challenge...though it also just provided massive XP as well, which...is that necessary anymore?

Though I do think it would be fun to have at least 1 Area on BGTSCC where it is nigh-impossible to grind there, or "make it" through, whatever the challenge.

[tfunke]

Soubar well : CR 0.5
East Chionthar : CR 1
BG, graveyard cave : CR 2
Soubar ruins : CR 2
BG, east gate sewers : CR 2.5
Soubar, Bane temple : CR 2.5
Boareskyr Bridge bears : CR 3
Gibberling : CR 3
East Chionthar ruins : CR 3
BG, palace's district sewers : CR 4
Boareskyr : CR 4
Ant burrow : CR 6
Ulgoth's island : CR 6
Thundar's Ride : CR 7
Bridgefort : CR 7
BG, sewer bowels : CR 8
Lion's way gnolls : CR 8
Dragonspear exterior and castle : CR 9
BG, Undercity : CR 10
Uldoon's trail : CR 13
High Moor south : CR 14
Ulgoth's pirate : CR 14
Elder Ogre stronghold : CR 15
Ulcaster : CR 16 (yes 16)
Durlag's exterior : CR 16
Durlag's tower : CR 16
Nashkel foothills : CR 16
Durlag's labyrinth 1-2 : CR 19
Durlag's labyrinth 3 : CR 22
Spirit troll cave : CR 23
Wyrm's cave : CR 23
Yuan-ti temple : CR 23
Stone giants : CR 24
Forest of Wyrms : CR 24
Graypeaks : CR 27
Speartop : CR 28

You're welcome

[dedude]

Sorry for going off-topic here. I think we should stop talking about powerbuilds in a negative tone. Nothing wrong with making a character focused on battle that is stronger than most others at fighting monsters. That has a place in RP as well. A highly skilled character that has maxed all lore skills is a powerbuild as well, just not in a battle sense. Any build has advantages and disadvantages.

What we need is to make room for other aspects of our characters to shine in day-to-day game play as well. Which is also what Valefort was talking about. Combat will always be the dominating challenge of the server of course, but I'm fairly sure you will be seeing areas and systems focused on other character aspects coming out in the future. It is something I am very passionate about, and others on the team as well.

[Hoihe]

Sorry for going off-topic here. I think we should stop talking about powerbuilds in a negative tone. Nothing wrong with making a character focused on battle that is stronger than most others at fighting monsters. That has a place in RP as well. A highly skilled character that has maxed all lore skills is a powerbuild as well, just not in a battle sense. Any build has advantages and disadvantages.

What we need is to make room for other aspects of our characters to shine in day-to-day game play as well. Which is also what Valefort was talking about. Combat will always be the dominating challenge of the server of course, but I'm fairly sure you will be seeing areas and systems focused on other character aspects coming out in the future. It is something I am very passionate about, and others on the team as well.

Thing is, all my investment in skills barring H/MS, Spellcraft, UMD and tumble are irrelevant in day-to-day interaction.

Furthermore, it's a pain in the ass doing anything between 18-25 as it's the range that is the hardest to find fellow players of suitable alignment/behaviour to party with.

I dislike powerbuilds as they want harder content throughout their levelling career, and due to our small developer base, we either have harder content or "threatening, but not lethal" challenge content.

Ideally, we'd have 3+ areas for each CR - one giving small, but stable rewards that can be done even by a Rogue without HiPS solo, one that requires some preparation or a non-gimped build, and one that either requires partying or a powerbuild. No area should require both powerbuilds and partying (we define partying as at most 6 PCs). We can give an exception to the "no area" rule or two, as end-game bosses or challenges that are non-vital to progression. All three areas would reward the same XP, merely item rewards would increase non-linearly towards the harder content. This is so all can progress.

At the moment, all areas that give decent XP in the Epic range already require partying, unless you are actively building to destroy the mobs there. Before we build the last, challenging type of areas we should increase the number of "Progression for generic PC" areas, and also cater a bit to the low-end of the spectrum.

[Valefort]

Dedude nailed it : we need to provide venues for PCs that are not completely centered on battle prowess to shine, and not only in DM events but in the raw environment. Once that's adressed battle prowess powerbuilds should also get their part of the cake with 1-2 areas where you need a strong and suited party.

Right now pure fighting ability is not only the most important aspect of a PC (which is fine and normal, it's D&D !) but often the only thing that you need to beat the environment (which is totally wrong); and that post above should be proof enough that the server is not so easy for everyone, even on the fighting part.