Upperdark

[Rinzler]

Make the Upperdark a no RP out zone for surface based PCs. That will stop people from abusing the rules and think twice about going down there.

[Argumantive]

It would be just easier to both make the upper-dark more rewarding (lets say a flat +5-10 increase in epic loot percentage to all areas) and make it an open pvp zone for both Surface and under-dark PC's. Thus making it truly dangerous and rewarding at the same, with none being able to rule lawyer out of it.

You want to get rid of certain behavior? Always have both a carrot and a stick, problem solved.

[Rinzler]

I like your idea Argumantive but one could make the argument the looting is already superior enough to warrant open PvP between surface and UD. However I'm open to the idea of more treasure!

Edit: It will ALSO give level 30 Paladins something to do (provide escorts) other than sit around at the FAI!

[Nyeleni]

I just had an encounter where a dwarf was running right by me in Kro's Labrynth at the time I was doing a loot run. I attempted to speak with the individual, yelled "halt", and even chased him to Rock Run. The individual did not say one word - nothing.

I was genuinely curious why a dwarf was just running around by himself in Kro's Labrynth and he completely ignored every opportunity to RP.

It seems the individuals from the surface get every benefit of the Upperdark while experiencing none of the detriments and risks of Underdark RP. I had no intention of RPing hostility either but the dynamic of a surfacer going below the surface and the rules surrounding it should be discussed again.

It's incredibly frustrating that people are allowed entirely to just avoid RP as a PvP defense mechanism. And again, I had absolutely zero intention of PvP.

When the RP opportunities are as limited as they are in the Underdark and you experience what I just did it pisses me off, which I'm sure you can tell by the tone of this post.

I know it's an extremely sensitive subject but the Upperdark dynamic needs to be discussed, something to where it forces people to RP to avoid PvP, instead of the opposite which I just experienced.

No, you cannot impose your RP on others. Period. Sorry if it has already been said in this thread. But I find this message an important one.
Every player has the freedom to play how he or she wishes it to be. As long as it doesn't harm or impose on another player. It is a very easy rule and common sense.
It might be frustrating to you. But the frustration of somebody imposing his or her rp on you far outweighs it imo.

[Argumantive]

I just had an encounter where a dwarf was running right by me in Kro's Labrynth at the time I was doing a loot run. I attempted to speak with the individual, yelled "halt", and even chased him to Rock Run. The individual did not say one word - nothing.

I was genuinely curious why a dwarf was just running around by himself in Kro's Labrynth and he completely ignored every opportunity to RP.

It seems the individuals from the surface get every benefit of the Upperdark while experiencing none of the detriments and risks of Underdark RP. I had no intention of RPing hostility either but the dynamic of a surfacer going below the surface and the rules surrounding it should be discussed again.

It's incredibly frustrating that people are allowed entirely to just avoid RP as a PvP defense mechanism. And again, I had absolutely zero intention of PvP.

When the RP opportunities are as limited as they are in the Underdark and you experience what I just did it pisses me off, which I'm sure you can tell by the tone of this post.

I know it's an extremely sensitive subject but the Upperdark dynamic needs to be discussed, something to where it forces people to RP to avoid PvP, instead of the opposite which I just experienced.

No, you cannot impose your RP on others. Period. Sorry if it has already been said in this thread. But I find this message an important one.
Every player has the freedom to play how he or she wishes it to be. As long as it doesn't harm or impose on another player. It is a very easy rule and common sense.
It might be frustrating to you. But the frustration of somebody imposing his or her rp on you far outweighs it imo.

I would like to say that by ignoring a PC in it's natural habitat RP was already imposed. The whole notion that you can simply ignore lore/player/whatnot because you want to reap the rewards without taking any risks, is not only makes expiriences shallow, but also is very self centric and juvenile. Freedom also means freedom to others and not only to you, and means that all actions have consequences.

[NegInfinity]

It's incredibly frustrating that people are allowed entirely to just avoid RP as a PvP defense mechanism.

You're jumping to conclusions here. There's no reason to think they were avoiding RP because of PvP defense. You decided that yourself and for no reason too.

A surfacer doesn't have to acknowledge the presence of a Drow in the Under/Upper dark? That is ridiculous! That was the entire purpose of my post. Surfacers get to come down and take advantage of every OOC rule while those in the Underdark are refrained from role-playing their character sheet. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Dude, last time I met your character, it was masked to the teeth. How the heck are people supposed to know what you are?

Calodan is right. You can't force people to interact with you, and you can't decide what their character is supposed to do. They know it better. Maybe the dwarf was deaf. Or maybe he was running the hell away from you. Maybe people who you met are part of some evil organization and deal with drow daily. There are many possibilities.

Also:

That being said, I don't think that surfacers should be able to ignore PVP rules down there at all.

Upperdark is a neutral zone, so surfacers there are not Kill on sight. This is part of the server/pvp rules. If you venture deeper, though....

[NegInfinity]

I would like to say that by ignoring a PC in it's natural habitat RP was already imposed.

Other people have no obligation to interact with you or with your character. The whole "reap the benefits" thing is something you guys arbitrarily decided is a reason for this behavior. Without asking the other party. Setup an ambush for that dwarf next time. Or something.

It might be frustrating to you. But the frustration of somebody imposing his or her rp on you far outweighs it imo.

Also, this is a good point. One of the most disgusting encounters I had on this server was someone who went hysterical because a group refused to take them along. The person in question spent next ten minutes sending angry tells about "the one proper way to play DND". Don't do stuff like that, people.

[Glowfire]

I don't take it to heart when my characters are ignored. Happens both in UD and on surface. I shrug, forget about it and move on. Yes, there is less RP in the UD but how does getting upset help with it... Those who ignore other characters are unlikely to look at the forums anyway. Why have your day/time spent ruined because of it...?



I'd continue to like to see the Upperdark as a place where both surfacers and UD characters can go to. It has increased UD RP. Just because a few characters walk past you doesn't mean that the way things currently work MUST change. I fail to follow the logic of it.

[Argumantive]

I would like to say that by ignoring a PC in it's natural habitat RP was already imposed.

Other people have no obligation to interact with you or with your character. The whole "reap the benefits" thing is something you guys arbitrarily decided is a reason for this behavior. Without asking the other party. Setup an ambush for that dwarf next time. Or something.

It might be frustrating to you. But the frustration of somebody imposing his or her rp on you far outweighs it imo.

Also, this is a good point. One of the most disgusting encounters I had on this server was someone who went hysterical because a group refused to take them along. The person in question spent next ten minutes sending angry tells about "the one proper way to play DND". Don't do stuff like that, people.

Reap the benefits is exactly as it is, you get access to another lootzone as a surface character. You also arbitrary decided I demand interaction, when all I suggested is that OOC protections be removed? You ignore the drow talking to you? He will kill you, that's what Drow do. I did not say force anyone do anything, but remove OOC protection from retarded lorebreaks.

As of people whining OOC about IC happenings, I agree with you, it's ugly, and people should be banned for harrassing others OOC.

My point is, keep things IC, and let IC actions, be faced with IC consequences without OOC protections.

[NegInfinity]

You ignore the drow talking to you? He will

If we're talking about dwarf in question... You can't kill something you can't catch. Or land a hit on. Just because the drow thinks he is the supreme race, it does not mean he will win.

And no, this isn't my dwarf, and I've never seen him.

but remove OOC protection from retarded lorebreaks.

And turn Upperdark into a pointless constant PVP zone. In 2 days you'll have level 30s ganking on low level cahracters, most likely with that dwarf on the frontline. This is a great way to ruin the map.

I'd rather not see this kind of thing.

It is up to DM to decide what is a "retarded lore break" and what isn't.

I also seriously dislike the recent tradition of trying to solve IC problem OOCly on forums. Grab five more drow and set up an ambush for that dwarf. Ask DM for help if you have to. Set a roadblock. If he can't pass he'll have to interact with you. There's so much potential for fun, RP opportunities, etc.

Instead, all those opportunities are wasted, and the only result is another petition on the forum "we must impose more sanctions!" Or something.

Just what the hell, people.

[Rinzler]

You're jumping to conclusions here. There's no reason to think they were avoiding RP because of PvP defense. You decided that yourself and for no reason too.


Dude, last time I met your character, it was masked to the teeth. How the heck are people supposed to know what you are?


Upperdark is a neutral zone, so surfacers there are not Kill on sight. This is part of the server/pvp rules. If you venture deeper, though....

1. It's absolutely a conflict defense mechanism. I've seen it enough times.

2. A short humanoid in the Underdark wearing a mask. I guess we better summon Albert Einstein to roll a lore check to assume what race he is.

3. Yes, it's neutral now but it needs to change. The surface has plenty of places for you to go. We're pretty limited down here.

4. Venture deeper? Where exactly? There's no where deeper to go that has any merit.

5. Why is it I NEVER see someone from the surface in S'shamath, but regularly see them in Mist Lake. It's just an Osquip ride away and S'shamath Law states you can't attack surfacers.

8. The Upperdark is nothing more than a loot playground update for surface PCs. It's about time the Underdark claims it as its domain.

9. I'm sorry if this makes your joy ride through the Upperdark more difficult.

10. Get a DM to set up a road block? You're joking right?

11. Open PvP would be between surface and UD PCs only. UD/UD or Surface/Surface would remain exactly the same. You don't like it? Stop going to the Upperdark - it's not meant for you anyways.

[NegInfinity]

2. A short humanoid in the Underdark wearing a mask.

Tiefling, Fire/Water/Earth/Air Genasi, Imaskari human, Human, Half-Drow.... Maybe even enlarged gnome/swirf. Or even a crazy elf/half-elf.

4. Venture deeper? Where exactly?

To tunnels surrounding sshamath, or to the route that goes from Netherese Maze to sshamath.

5. Why is it I NEVER see someone from the surface in S'shamath,

Because you're never in Sshamath when surfacers pay a visit, and when they do visit, they pay attention to having a proper disguise, character description and set the scry to off.

From surfacer's perspective, it is extremely difficult to bump into a PC drow in Sshamath. I think this year I saw two PC drow there total. Of course, numbers increase when the drow throw a party, I mean a DM event, but if you decide to pay a visit to sshamath, most likely you won't find anyone.

I did bump into a drow on the surface though.

Basically, if you want to meet a surfacer in sshamath, you should be in sshamath, instead of hanging out in rockrun and upperdark.

[Rinzler]

You make a lot of assumptions for not having an Underdark main. I doubt you'll find a more active UD player than me the past two months. I'm getting pretty irritated so I'm going to step away from the computer but all I ask is those who are in charge take a hard look at the rules concerning the Upperdark because they very much need a change.

It's also quite ironic that rule number 1 from your signature link is this:

Do not dismiss the original poster's suggestion as outright unneeded.

[Calodan]

Keep reporting them until they're dealt with.

Report them for what exactly?

[NegInfinity]

You make a lot of assumptions for not having an Underdark main. I doubt you'll find a more active UD player than me the past two months. I'm getting pretty irritated so I'm going to step away from the computer but all I ask is those who are in charge take a hard look at the rules concerning the Upperdark because they very much need a change.

I did have an underdark character which was active for several months, though they didn't make it to the epics.

It doesn't matter how active you are, I'm speaking based on experience: I've never seen you in Sshamath during this year when I paid visits, and during my visits into sshamath as a surfacer I met roughly two PC drow total. I did run into a drow on a surface.

Your activity level has nothing to do with it. I'm describing what actually happened. Whether you like it or not.