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Re: Can we make other races more appealing?
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:29 pm
by Thorsson
Laughingman wrote:Thorsson wrote:I really don't know why people like Tieflings so much. Tiefling's favored class is rogue, but they're inferior Rogues.
Fantastic wizards though.
Edit: and badass looking warlocks!
Don't know why, but I've never considered them as Wizards. But then I hardly ever play a Wizard - TBH I can't focus on the mechanics and RP at the same time. I tried a Warlock once; probably not even a very good Warlock, but it made the game mechanically a doddle. I got bored.
I'm just an awkward SOB.
Re: Can we make other races more appealing?
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:41 pm
by Fury_US
Looking at that list, honestly, I see a lot of races that should be rare, so from an RP perspective, the infrequency of those races (for the most part) fits the setting. It's the big racial bonuses and the wealth of very powerful classes that benefit from certain stats that make the sword coast a hot bed of, apparently, some incredibly promiscuous celestials.
Re: Can we make other races more appealing?
Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:02 pm
by aaron22
instead of making all other races more desirable how about you just make the one that they are being compared to less desirable. human. take away the free feat at 1 and problem solved.
this should go over well....
Re: Can we make other races more appealing?
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:27 pm
by Calantyr
Simple answer: Ugly head models on a load of races.
Re: Can we make other races more appealing?
Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:53 am
by cosmic ray
Thorsson wrote:I really don't know why people like Tieflings so much. Tiefling's favored class is rogue, but they're inferior Rogues.
I love tieflings for the RP and flavor of the race even if they may not be that good when it comes to stats.
Re: Can we make other races more appealing?
Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:39 pm
by Thorsson
cosmic ray wrote:I love tieflings for the RP and flavor of the race even if they may not be that good when it comes to stats.
Their Stats ARE good; there's no doubt about that. It's just there are better Rogues.
As for the flavor of the race; that's exactly what I hate. It's just so teenage angsty: "Everybody is out to get me. Why? Just because I'm descended from Fiends. They should get over it already."
Re: Can we make other races more appealing?
Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:54 pm
by Diamore
Firstly, removing anything from classes or races is always painful and often pointless. Adding to a race however opens up new options.
Secondly, saying that X race makes a great Y build ignores the point. Races that look good get used. Races that can get used in multiple types of builds equally well get used more.
Aasimir, Tieflings, humans and strongheart halflings are objectively better for the majority of builds that do not have a racial requirement. Dwarves and elves are equally good at a number of builds but with obvious preference to the better looking options.
Races that have only one or two "good" builds will simply not get chosen due to the limited number of options available. This is where the genasi get left behind. They have no internal synergy with their own abilities and statistic distribution, an ECL increase for seemingly no reason and limited build niches, notably for earth genasi. They also have very limited options for customisation and are difficult to make look good.
Genasi do need to be improved.
Re: Can we make other races more appealing?
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:34 pm
by Laughingman
Diamore wrote:Firstly, removing anything from classes or races is always painful and often pointless. Adding to a race however opens up new options.
Secondly, saying that X race makes a great Y build ignores the point. Races that look good get used. Races that can get used in multiple types of builds equally well get used more.
Aasimir, Tieflings, humans and strongheart halflings are objectively better for the majority of builds that do not have a racial requirement. Dwarves and elves are equally good at a number of builds but with obvious preference to the better looking options.
Races that have only one or two "good" builds will simply not get chosen due to the limited number of options available. This is where the genasi get left behind. They have no internal synergy with their own abilities and statistic distribution, an ECL increase for seemingly no reason and limited build niches, notably for earth genasi. They also have very limited options for customisation and are difficult to make look good.
Genasi do need to be improved.
I couldn't say it better myself. It is just like Half Orcs. They received a few changes and now even have a class coming out to try to make them more enjoyable. Some other races could be glanced over and maybe considered. Maybe more hairstyles? Faces? Custom classes? Stat buffs? Race locked equipment? Starting location? I don't know. Just my two cents that this should be considered.
Re: Can we make other races more appealing?
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:53 pm
by NeOmega
Diamore wrote:Firstly, removing anything from classes or races is always painful and often pointless. Adding to a race however opens up new options.
Secondly, saying that X race makes a great Y build ignores the point. Races that look good get used. Races that can get used in multiple types of builds equally well get used more.
Aasimir, Tieflings, humans and strongheart halflings are objectively better for the majority of builds that do not have a racial requirement. Dwarves and elves are equally good at a number of builds but with obvious preference to the better looking options.
Races that have only one or two "good" builds will simply not get chosen due to the limited number of options available. This is where the genasi get left behind. They have no internal synergy with their own abilities and statistic distribution, an ECL increase for seemingly no reason and limited build niches, notably for earth genasi. They also have very limited options for customisation and are difficult to make look good. also maybe their elemental resistance match their level. so earth genasi would be acid 1/- level 1 and acid 30/- level 30.
Genasi do need to be improved.
earth genasi are the best of the four. they make great fighter builds, which is their preferred class. ive also considered a monk earth genasi, fist of forest, with high DR. they get the elemental dr, which fits great, and you can then put them in darksteel armor to really make them resist acid. then i often fit them to other classes with energy resistances.
i love genasi. their rp is strange for me, as i almost always give them the foreigner background trait, and they never have good charisma.
the only one i havent done yet is fire. im still thinking about what i want to make with one. probably a dragon disciple.
and honestly, id hate to see genasi given a boost, and then see genasi running around everywhere. they are supposed to be rare, really rare, actually.
if they were given any boost, id like to see their special abilities scaled with their level. so stoneskin and water of the mists? would last longer, (and have more hp for the stoneskin), gust of wind gets stronger, and the fire genasis thing, (not sure what it is) also gets stronger as they level.
Re: Can we make other races more appealing?
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:00 pm
by NeOmega
Thorsson wrote:cosmic ray wrote:I love tieflings for the RP and flavor of the race even if they may not be that good when it comes to stats.
Their Stats ARE good; there's no doubt about that. It's just there are better Rogues.
As for the flavor of the race; that's exactly what I hate. It's just so teenage angsty: "Everybody is out to get me. Why? Just because I'm descended from Fiends. They should get over it already."
heh. mine does that, he plays it to the fullest to gain symapthy.
Re: Can we make other races more appealing?
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:01 pm
by Thorsson
NeOmega wrote:heh. mine does that, he plays it to the fullest to gain symapthy.
My Dwarf is like Khelgar on that front - he'd spit and then start fingering his axe. "The only good Tiefling is a dead Tiefling", he'd growl.
Re: Can we make other races more appealing?
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:10 pm
by NeOmega
Thorsson wrote:NeOmega wrote:heh. mine does that, he plays it to the fullest to gain symapthy.
My Dwarf is like Khelgar on that front - he'd spit and then start fingering his axe. "The only good Tiefling is a dead Tiefling", he'd growl.
honestly, most characters should not trust anything teiflings say. luckily, most i have run into during rp dont like teiflings, (in fact all), so he still has a rough time with his lies. he is still looking for a foolish human to befriend and later betray though.
Re: Can we make other races more appealing?
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:13 pm
by cosmic ray
Thorsson wrote:cosmic ray wrote:I love tieflings for the RP and flavor of the race even if they may not be that good when it comes to stats.
Their Stats ARE good; there's no doubt about that. It's just there are better Rogues.
As for the flavor of the race; that's exactly what I hate. It's just so teenage angsty: "Everybody is out to get me. Why? Just because I'm descended from Fiends. They should get over it already."
Not all tieflings are like that
under the surface. I see tieflings as literally diabolically evil people, naturally inclined to the darkest powers and vilest deeds; with twisted psyques and perverted fantasies. <3
Re: Can we make other races more appealing?
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:22 am
by Blame The Rogue
give half drow a choice of surface or underdark at creation, unless they have that option already. was looking thru server info and couldn't find anything specific on half drow
i find it amusing that when they are "found out" on the surface, they are treated worse than tieflings. you know, a dusky half "elf", compared to a red-skinned person, with horns, and a tail, that look like the devil?
