Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

If you got the head and the body, just place the two parts together and cast raise dead.

Can't put a body back together if there's no body to put together. *Wizard watches dust from disintegrate float away, then casts Gust of Wind to be sure*

True Resurrection would be useful for that sort of thing, yes. Permadeath can still happen by other means (see: DMs saying so, the soul not being willing or able to return, etc).

Khazrak wrote:Can't put a body back together if there's no body to put together. *Wizard watches dust from disintegrate float away, then casts Gust of Wind to be sure*

True Resurrection would be useful for that sort of thing, yes. Permadeath can still happen by other means (see: DMs saying so, the soul not being willing or able to return, etc).

The DM would then remove agency from the player. It is the player's character, not the DM's.

This whole argument of yours, which spans multiple threads, is based on the idea that only players should have say in whether or not their character is permanently killed off.

Most of the time this is true and fine. Sometimes, actions warrant an outside force to step in and say enough is enough. And no, not everyone is objective enough to come to this conclusion on their own.

This is your knee jerk reaction to multiple suggestions of harsher death penalties to include permanent death. My advice to you is to play your character and avoid those rare instances that would warrant a permanent strike.

If, and it's unlikely, but if any harsher system were implemented this suggestion might have merit, as it currently stands this is a waste of debate.

YourMoveHolyMan wrote:This whole argument of yours, which spans multiple threads, is based on the idea that only players should have say in whether or not their character is permanently killed off.

Most of the time this is true and fine. Sometimes, actions warrant an outside force to step in and say enough is enough. And no, not everyone is objective enough to come to this conclusion on their own.

This is your knee jerk reaction to multiple suggestions of harsher death penalties to include permanent death. My advice to you is to play your character and avoid those rare instances that would warrant a permanent strike.

If, and it's unlikely, but if any harsher system were implemented this suggestion might have merit, as it currently stands this is a waste of debate.

Rather not get blindsided by undesirable things, and rather quell them at their roots.

Then consider argueing the points instead of suggesting currently unneeded changes.

YourMoveHolyMan wrote:Then consider argueing the points instead of suggesting currently unneeded changes.

The change would prevent many of the points raised from having any salt.

What about Entropic Husk ?

Khazrak wrote:Can't put a body back together if there's no body to put together. *Wizard watches dust from disintegrate float away, then casts Gust of Wind to be sure*

True Resurrection would be useful for that sort of thing, yes. Permadeath can still happen by other means (see: DMs saying so, the soul not being willing or able to return, etc).

while it is possible to kill someone with disintegrate, the scattering of the dust would still not be allowed by the rules, unless the person agrees to it and then its them perma killing their own character

Hoihe wrote:It is the player's character, not the DM's.

Something is seriously wrong with this logic.

DMs are the ones running the campaign, and player is part of it. You cannot have individual player dictate how the events in campaign unfold just because it is their character.

The purpose of the setting is collaborative story that is enjoyable for all, and not pandering to one person. A player provide their character and follows the rules for fun. A DM, however, can destroy player's character and remove it from campaign permanently if situation calls for it. It is a reasonable arrangement.

While player owns character, the player does not the world in which said character lives and thus can be removed from it. In that situation you could request a bic file which is your character. However, you cannot demand to remain active in the world no matter what happens. DMs are the ones who decide this part.

NegInfinity wrote:

Hoihe wrote:It is the player's character, not the DM's.

Something is seriously wrong with this logic.

DMs are the ones running the campaign, and player is part of it. You cannot have individual player dictate how the events in campaign unfold just because it is their character.

The purpose of the setting is collaborative story that is enjoyable for all, and not pandering to one person. A player provide their character and follows the rules for fun. A DM, however, can destroy player's character and remove it from campaign permanently if situation calls for it. It is a reasonable arrangement.

While player owns character, the player does not the world in which said character lives and thus can be removed from it. In that situation you could request a bic file which is your character. However, you cannot demand to remain active in the world no matter what happens. DMs are the ones who decide this part.

DMs come and go. DMs change opinion back and forth. Hell, DMs even retcon existing events.

Let me paraphrase good old Maecius:

"It is not the place of anyone, including DMs, to decide the fate of a character."


I am pretty sure I don't want to take any risk of encountering another DM who decides a natural 20 on a strength roll equates torn muscles that ABSOLUTELY NOTHING can regenerate.

After talks with Maecius said injury was duly ignored after a recovery period to re-acclimatize to the fixed muscles.

DMs like that existed, may exist and WILL exist. I refuse to take any risk in that regard. If I want to shoot myself in the foot, I'll borrow my friend's bear hunting bow.

And even if a DM is not going to be abusive, it's a risk I will not take. And even if a DM is well-meaning, there's a wild range of DM interpretations of what things should be. My favorite still are the absurd skill DC making method of "HD + 10 + X" where X ranges from 5 to 50 depending on which side of the bed the DM woke up on and is often decided based on perceived difficulty when something is in fact far easier.


What you said would apply if and only if this were a pen and paper campaign with a single DM that remains for length of the entire campaign with clear beginning and end. In such settings, especially for horror campaigns, I'll gladly give the DM power.

if your issue with with DMs killing your toon or doing w/e, true resurrection isnt going to fix that

so there is still no reason to add it

On a previous server, we had to be level 30, and to cast a TR, you had to have a DM present to oversee and you lost a full level to show the strain of such on the caster. Of course there was also the cost in diamonds, and it was required the caster have something personal of the person it was attempted on.

I'd love to see a TR spell be implemented, even at a high gold cost and the level loss, for the RP times that can and have come up where a regular resurrection won't cut it.

any pnp spell can be done with DM oversight - talk with them before hand and if they are ok with it then you can use it, i use to do it all the time on the surface and in the UD

if it can only be used with DM oversight there is still no reason to add it since you can do anything with a DM

Blackman D wrote:any pnp spell can be done with DM oversight - talk with them before hand and if they are ok with it then you can use it, i use to do it all the time on the surface and in the UD

if it can only be used with DM oversight there is still no reason to add it since you can do anything with a DM

That's the point. Remove the variability of one DM wanting to play Dragon Age Origins under the guise of Forgotten Realms and the other wanting to play Dota 2 in forgotten realms. If it's in the spellbook, they cannot argue against its existence.

Or we could also remove/change the rule regarding P&P spells.