Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World BGTSCC Discussion Forum
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I completely agree with this, and like I said just before, this DOESN'T solve the problem at all. Instead it punishes people who're engaging in PvE.cosmic ray wrote: These rules are completely anti-rp and they target characters involved in PvE, not PvP. Besides "preventing" rule breaking by cracking down on people who have broken no rules violates any sane person's sense of justice.
Literally, that's a big if.Incarnate wrote:IF
I dont know how you came to that conclusion but you skip one basic fact. That rule encompasses the direction of the server as far as i known - which is Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:31 pm.cosmic ray wrote:The core issue here is this:
Some players and DMs dislike the fact that surface drow, some of whom are good, exist in the setting, so they try and discouragethat kind of RP as much as they can.
That gives us these rules.
The same people like good xp and loot ratios, so they make sure one of the best xp/loot farms on the server, the upperdark, remains wthin reach of their surface characters and their friends' characters.
This gives us the exception to the rule.
It's rotten, anti-rp, cronyist attitudes from people with ooc gripes that you can even see splling over into their ic actions.
And they don't even have the decency to be honest about it, instead insulting our intelligence by claiming to be worried about rule breaking or some such. There may be rule breaking involved, but they are using that as a convenient excuse to push an ooc agenda.
"That's how things are now" It's a pretty poor argument for something we could discuss and improve for the sake of everyone.mrm3ntalist wrote:We can try to meet rationalize why this is fair or unfair, we can apply philosophies and liberal opinions, we can even find an excuse to complain. All the above doesn’t change a simple fact. That’s how bg was and currently is. Ud characters are not allowed on the surface and vice versa unless there is an rp reason. The new mechanics enforce just that
Not now my friend. Always.Azkan wrote:"That's how things are now" It's a pretty poor argument for something we could discuss and improve for the sake of everyone.mrm3ntalist wrote:We can try to meet rationalize why this is fair or unfair, we can apply philosophies and liberal opinions, we can even find an excuse to complain. All the above doesn’t change a simple fact. That’s how bg was and currently is. Ud characters are not allowed on the surface and vice versa unless there is an rp reason. The new mechanics enforce just that
I agree with Azkan. This might have been decided back in 2012 - but hey its 2018 and things change and evolve - so back then was a good move, isn't necessesarily now, and should be reevaluated, especially when people complain about it.Azkan wrote:"That's how things are now" It's a pretty poor argument for something we could discuss and improve for the sake of everyone.mrm3ntalist wrote:We can try to meet rationalize why this is fair or unfair, we can apply philosophies and liberal opinions, we can even find an excuse to complain. All the above doesn’t change a simple fact. That’s how bg was and currently is. Ud characters are not allowed on the surface and vice versa unless there is an rp reason. The new mechanics enforce just that
One thing is IC'ly not being allowed on the surface, but mechanically is completely different and shouldn't be enforced with rules or mechanics that enforces it.mrm3ntalist wrote:We can try to meet rationalize why this is fair or unfair, we can apply philosophies and liberal opinions, we can even find an excuse to complain. All the above doesn’t change a simple fact. That’s how bg was and currently is. Ud characters are not allowed on the surface and vice versa unless there is an rp reason. The new mechanics enforce just that
Uhm... thats how nwn2 deals with these things. With mechanics rules etc.Incarnate wrote:One thing is IC'ly not being allowed on the surface, but mechanically is completely different and shouldn't be enforced with rules or mechanics that enforces it.mrm3ntalist wrote:We can try to meet rationalize why this is fair or unfair, we can apply philosophies and liberal opinions, we can even find an excuse to complain. All the above doesn’t change a simple fact. That’s how bg was and currently is. Ud characters are not allowed on the surface and vice versa unless there is an rp reason. The new mechanics enforce just that
Its not an IC thing at all but 100% OOC. An OOC mechanic for an OOC rule.Its IC and should be handled IC'ly. There are very possible IC-consequences for coming to the surface as UD-character, and likewise there are very possible IC-consequences for a surface character to come to UD - as such there should be no mechanics or rules that enforces this. Furthermore, such a rule actually is COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE, one of the reasons is that it removes an ENTIRE reason for a character to want to come there, that means there are lot RP that could happen but won't happen because they have ZERO reasons to be there.
So what you're saying is that from an OOC perspective UD characters shouldn't be on the surface and Surface characters shouldn't be in UD? Thats even more counter-productive for RP.mrm3ntalist wrote:Its not an IC thing at all but 100% OOC. An OOC mechanic for an OOC rule.Incarnate wrote: Its IC and should be handled IC'ly. There are very possible IC-consequences for coming to the surface as UD-character, and likewise there are very possible IC-consequences for a surface character to come to UD - as such there should be no mechanics or rules that enforces this. Furthermore, such a rule actually is COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE, one of the reasons is that it removes an ENTIRE reason for a character to want to come there, that means there are lot RP that could happen but won't happen because they have ZERO reasons to be there.
Why you keep using the word saying? I am not saying anything. Its the servers direction since for ever. UD/Surface characters are not allowed on the surface/UD unless for an RP reason.Incarnate wrote:So what you're saying is that from an OOC perspective UD characters shouldn't be on the surface and Surface characters shouldn't be in UD? Thats even more counter-productive for RP.mrm3ntalist wrote:Its not an IC thing at all but 100% OOC. An OOC mechanic for an OOC rule.Incarnate wrote: Its IC and should be handled IC'ly. There are very possible IC-consequences for coming to the surface as UD-character, and likewise there are very possible IC-consequences for a surface character to come to UD - as such there should be no mechanics or rules that enforces this. Furthermore, such a rule actually is COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE, one of the reasons is that it removes an ENTIRE reason for a character to want to come there, that means there are lot RP that could happen but won't happen because they have ZERO reasons to be there.
You're the one saying things right now, it may be that you didn't choose this direction or that you didn't have involvement in that decision, but you're the one who's here saying its like it is.mrm3ntalist wrote:Why you keep using the word saying? I am not saying anything. Its the servers direction since for ever. UD/Surface characters are not allowed on the surface/UD unless for an RP reason.
I didnt say this. That was always the case.
And no, it is not counteractive to RP. UD characters can still be on the surface to RP. They cant get fat XPz and lootz though
MAte, do us a favor and read the rules. especially the following part, That was always the case, I am not saying it. The new mechanics enforces just that. If you want to RP and have a reason for it, go ahead. If you want to loot or grind... sorryIncarnate wrote:You're the one saying things right now, it may be that you didn't choose this direction or that you didn't have involvement in that decision, but you're the one who's here saying its like it is.mrm3ntalist wrote:Why you keep using the word saying? I am not saying anything. Its the servers direction since for ever. UD/Surface characters are not allowed on the surface/UD unless for an RP reason.
I didnt say this. That was always the case.
And no, it is not counteractive to RP. UD characters can still be on the surface to RP. They cant get fat XPz and lootz though
Here is why its counter-productive to RP - It removes an ENTIRE reason for a character to want to go there, and its quite the hassle to get there, not only is it a hassle, but do you die down/up there you can only respawn in your respective area based on whether you're a Surface or UD character. Exploring is a very valid and legitimate RP reason, however when you can ZERO out of it you have nothing to motivate you.
I have to ask, what are they seeking to accomplish with this? Why do they want to segregate the server this way? To me this seems like they're trying to stop people from MECHANICALLY grinding the areas.
– Surface/UD Travel!
-You can be on the other side, but have some roleplay reason to be there (not just an excuse to grind or PvP). races from the surface and the Underdark, respectively, are not permitted to live on the other side without DM approval. Expeditions to the other side have a clear set start and end period for a particular objective with the character returning to it's home setting after the period is over. Stating that you are there to defeat such and such creature, or to test your skill is not a valid RP reason, that is grinding. We also do not consider general exploration, or Drow raids on the surface as a valid RP reason, although such can be fodder for DM moderated events. Please PM the team regarding this.
Valid RP reasons outside of the above are defined widely and do not require prior DM approval. Examples include meeting another PC to trade, or to RP over religion, or to establish contacts with another guild. We would ask however that you are able to state your reasons when a DM asks and abide by any decision that is made. Please note that it is not valid to grind once the reasons for travelling to the surface or Underdark are complete. Stating that you are meeting a PC in Sshamath to acquire via trade rare and valuable items is a valid reason but grinding afterwards with your trading partner is still grinding. Both surface and Underdark races are permitted on Upperdark maps and full RP outs are required to initiate PvP (no KOS on Upperdark maps). If slain in PvP on the "other" side you may be issued a permastrike as a result.
We also ask that players are respectful of the setting given the leniency of these rules. On the surface NPCs should be regarded as universally hostile to Underdark PCs and so maps with NPCs should be avoided where possible without DM supervision. In the Underdark, the peculiarities of Sshamath's lore should be respected and the Underdark itself should be considered a dangerous and hostile place. While we wish to facilitate roleplay between surface and Underdark we do not want to erode the setting and so may intervene in RP that is immersion breaking.