Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

The lore curve is steep and there's already enough surface players / DMs who look down their noses at folks who haven't memorized every page of every source book. I don't want to get snarked behind my back because I don't immediately know who all sits on the Conclave and why they're important.

I don't play in the UD because I have not really tried to RP down there. Mainly because as RPer I am still growing up....

Also I found that the UD had little to loot compared to the surface. I am a well known looter so the chest styles down there were sparsely put about and far away from each other making it a entire UD prospect to go loot it. Throw in the fact that you o literally were in one place from level 12-30 on was a bit of a turn off too.

Since the introduction of the Upperdark that is less of an issue. I have considered getting back on my PC in the UD but I also do not play many PCs past level 21 because the leveling mechanics are a bit of issue for me since the best way to level past 21 is questing....

All in all I did not mind the rules and I encounter UD up on the surface more than I encountered surface in the UD.

With the introduction of the UpD you could argue that surface is now in the UD more....So there is that.

I really had no desire as a UD PC to go to the surface even before in fact. My main thing believe it or not was that RP down there was sparse and so was DM attention......

Not discouraged, just not tempted ever, the Sword Coast and Baldur's Gate is a cooler setting.

I've never explored the UD on the BGTSCC server. I may have rolled a character once but quickly abandoned the idea.

Truth is, I was never one for the UD depiction, it never attracted me as a role player. Even with some UD elements shoe-horned into BGII and the Icewind Dale Series, I never really enjoyed that setting.

The Drow are an uninteresting race to me, so are the other UD races. I was never a fan of Drizzt, or those books either. The whole thing of different houses, poison etc....it's just contrived to me. They all backstab each other, Game of Thrones this and that. Blind Tunnel gnomes, slaves, dark elves with fetishes for poison and dominatrixes and slavery, it just seems so....meh.

To me it was always a just more of a 'dungeon' setting, more than anything else. The UD has always had a sort of 'cult-following', but for me it just fails to deliver.

I like the idea of the Drukhari in the 40k setting, but even then it's mostly of 'meh' attraction due to being based around the original fantasy concept of 'Drow', only instead of the Underdark they have their shadow city in the alternate dimension. The idea of drugs and high speed jet-bike gang races and gladiator arena's is cool, but also just 'meh'.

I prefer the Dark Elves from the Elder Scrolls setting, and even then still, not a fan.

Trimmed down and chopped up, I guess for me it just boils down to personal preference.

At the same time, the undertone of the sexual implications of dark torture dominatrix fantasy is a grooming tool that, in my opinion, encourages 'erotic' role play as it simulates the 'slave-master' 'role playing' via certain Drow factions. I know not all Drow factions are part of this, but I just can't shake that stigma.

I guess it's just my opinion, maybe it's contrived, maybe its too 'OOC' or 'meta', maybe I'm completely off-base, but hey.....you asked for my opinion so there it is.

Reckeo wrote:I guess it's just my opinion, maybe it's contrived, maybe its too 'OOC' or 'meta', maybe I'm completely off-base, but hey.....you asked for my opinion so there it is.

That's all that matters.

TarnishedSoul wrote:The lore curve is steep and there's already enough surface players / DMs who look down their noses at folks who haven't memorized every page of every source book. I don't want to get snarked behind my back because I don't immediately know who all sits on the Conclave and why they're important.

You're not too far off from the truth. This is a legit problem with a good sum of Underdark Roleplay where I've watched a handful of elitists get emotional over a newcomer's lacking use of 'xas' and 'aluve', then preach contradiction to the forum on being inclusive.

kleomenes wrote: Join Bregan!

..I realise turning this into a Bregan recruitment thread is off topic

My char never heard of this guild (aside from seeing the sign), has no idea what it is about or why it could be a good idea to join.

Sorry.

OOCly I never got into the whole guild thing.

TarnishedSoul wrote:The lore curve is steep and there's already enough surface players / DMs who look down their noses at folks who haven't memorized every page of every source book. I don't want to get snarked behind my back because I don't immediately know who all sits on the Conclave and why they're important.

This pretty much sums up my fears as well.

And in addition:

Low population.

I recently tried to make a duergar, but couldn't figure out where to go as a low level, so I picked a random direction which seemed sensible and died at my first encounter. That was my last attempt at UD.

NegInfinity wrote:

kleomenes wrote: Join Bregan!

..I realise turning this into a Bregan recruitment thread is off topic

My char never heard of this guild (aside from seeing the sign), has no idea what it is about or why it could be a good idea to join.

Sorry.

OOCly I never got into the whole guild thing.

Protection from allies is important in the UD, especially for non drow. They can be hired too!

I spent several months last year playing a Drow adventurer... Had a cool backstory sent to the DMs, was getting in to his history and learning his place in the setting, but for me the positives outweighed the negatives.

Positives:
- It was different, required a different mindset in RP. Challenged my comfort zone and I feel allowed me to grow in my ability to RP something I am not necessarily used to.
- A few really fun RP interactions.
- The loot seemed better in the underdark. Very well may have been luck of the draw or something, but I found a lot of decent stuff going on UD loot runs.
- From a mechanical perspective, Drow, Duergar and Svirfneblin allow you to build some interesting combinations that aren't really possible with too many surface races. The stat spread makes for some strong combinations that aren't possible with any other race.

Negatives:
- Most of the time all I could do was grind...Quest grinding, loot grinding, XP grinding...often all three at once. When there is no one else in the UD that's all you can do...when there is someone else in the UD there is no telling if they are going to want to RP or just kill you (which is also RP, but more final)
- Only a few really fun RP interactions... Likely my play times didn't match up because at the time there was plenty of RP I saw going on in the forums, but I rarely met any of the folks outside of forum RP.
- At the time, Upperdark wasn't there and once I hit ~19 it became a very slow slog to level. By the time I reached level 21 as a Drow it was just no fun going places that were exceedingly difficult just to earn 20xp per kill. I have tried logging back in to the PC since Kro's was added and Ohgrann's was changed, but I rarely can motivate myself to get back in to the character.
- At some point it gets rather bleak. While the environments are beautiful, they start to look repetitive, perhaps because it is (rightfully) smaller than the surface.
- Agree with others that the lack of a map makes it REALLY annoying. Why would it be easy for a seasoned Underdark adventurer to get lost? They learn these tunnels almost from birth.

In the end the Underdark is a cool little niche, but isn't for me as a permanent place to play with my limited time. I want more area's to adventure in with less darkness.

A number of reasons. I have actually played there in the past (long past) on another account. My experiences then preclude me from attempting any further.

=The players (in my experience) tend to be ~ diplomatically put ~ strongly opinionated when it comes to drow lore, customs, and how I should play my character. I can understand some of it, I am a bit OCD about some things myself, but its more pronounced and noticeable when playing in a small pool of players.

=By the same token, I don't much care for the drow RP that people tend to push. There are far too many skimpy-clad dominatrices for me. It is the same thing, over and over, and in a male-dominated city no less. The RP seems like a broken record when it relates to Lolth-RP. There is not enough anti-lolth RP.

=I grew up on the 'Queen of the Demonweb Pits' module (not a FR module). Drow are some of the best NPC monsters to me. I dont think most do that any justice.

=The areas themselves are far too dark for sustained play for my tastes, sometimes I feel the nights on the surface are too long as well.

=It is a ghost town. It is hard to find anyone playing when I play. Adding more areas may solve one problem, but it will exacerbate this one.

=I think the xas, aluve, dos bit is contrived and worn out. I've never run into that on any other player race. It is hard for me to feel immersed when I hear that sort of thing, because it triggers OOC annoyances.

Thats my honest assessment, and I would be lying if I said that some of the most vocal UD-advocates don't also push me toward not trying again. It just seems like more work and stress than fun.

A waste of resources. It shouldn't have been implemented in the first place. Drow should have been exclusively NPCs, same with the other UD races.

Never liked how the UD looks and in general dislike the drow-rp that is prevalent down there. Nothing against the players themselves though.

Yep, a rather radical opinion.

Lighters wrote:A number of reasons. I have actually played there in the past (long past) on another account. My experiences then preclude me from attempting any further.

=The players (in my experience) tend to be ~ diplomatically put ~ strongly opinionated when it comes to drow lore, customs, and how I should play my character. I can understand some of it, I am a bit OCD about some things myself, but its more pronounced and noticeable when playing in a small pool of players.

=By the same token, I don't much care for the drow RP that people tend to push. There are far too many skimpy-clad dominatrices for me. It is the same thing, over and over, and in a male-dominated city no less. The RP seems like a broken record when it relates to Lolth-RP. There is not enough anti-lolth RP.

=I grew up on the 'Queen of the Demonweb Pits' module (not a FR module). Drow are some of the best NPC monsters to me. I dont think most do that any justice.

=The areas themselves are far too dark for sustained play for my tastes, sometimes I feel the nights on the surface are too long as well.

=It is a ghost town. It is hard to find anyone playing when I play. Adding more areas may solve one problem, but it will exacerbate this one.

=I think the xas, aluve, dos bit is contrived and worn out. I've never run into that on any other player race. It is hard for me to feel immersed when I hear that sort of thing, because it triggers OOC annoyances.

Thats my honest assessment, and I would be lying if I said that some of the most vocal UD-advocates don't also push me toward not trying again. It just seems like more work and stress than fun.

I feel I didn't reflect my annoyances with the forced written 'alluve' crap either. It's annoying AF and a major turn away. I even have met players on the surface, playing humans or whatever else come up to my Elven characters saying different variations of 'elf speak' greetings and everything else. I find it to be so annoying that I don't even want to play elves in general anymore, let alone drow. Big point there.

Cal. as a looter myself, i can tell you that the UD while hard at first, is better in my two experiences there.

set up: no twinking. started at 0xp. 1000 gp start. RP standards with HC rules in place. +1 ECL

this time i decided to make notes of my score as i level. at level 4 i had just gotten my first 20k. that was a tough go obviously as i had no idea where to go and not go. searching for and missing many loot points along the way. at level 8 my hauls have increased as i have become decent at knowing the spots and have stepped up to 65k. i level fast loot fast, so that is three days at about 4hr/d (12 hours). not super fast but picking up speed as first 4 took about 5-6 hours. on the surface i usually get levels far faster, but my loot score at the end of 8 would prolly be closer to 40k.

in conclusion: i think the loot possibilities are at least as good as surface loot so far. we shall see if continues or slows down. low variety and low population may be a down side to the perception of the UD, but it may be the biggest advantage to a level/looter.

Cal. I too am growing as a RPer. I am kind of a one trick pony when it comes to RP and spreading my wings is a daunting proposal. especially when you know you are going in with sharks.

adobongmanok wrote:Aside from the ECL +2, and the stat attributes that doesn't fit in your build as well as the recent game mechanic changes. I would like to hear your opinions.

Because I roll my eyes every time i run into a lolthite using drommon, screaming "lolth tlu malla! Xas! Chaos!"
I'll take surface bake sales over that.

I like it how you managed to present mechanically the best race we have by far in a somewhat negative light though. Good effort. You did forget that there are other races down there as well.