Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

@neg what prompted all of this was a discussion on discord where I pointed out that there is no actual support for the other pacts that the server wants to claim support for - the spell graphics and effects support the 'classic' warlock - a demonic or infernal pact. Which makes claiming a fey or celestial pact a hard sell.

Now, I personally think fey/celestial packs are silly and against the spirit of the class, but if they're going to be allowed they should have some way to differentiate themselves from the real warlocks.

Which, really, just means offering some invocations with identical effects but different, less spoopy looking visuals. A good aligned Eladrin isn't going to give their warlock access to brimstone and hellfire for instance, and they certainly wouldn't show them how to change shape into a hellhound or devil.

So...taking existing invocations and altering them to allow for the other pact types to use them without breaking their RP? I don't see an issue with that, even if strictly speaking the invocations are 'against lore' to begin with. It's already in the game and they've already been doing it though, so speaking out against the idea of modifying the spell isn't going to stop warlocks turning into devils. If anything, you ought to be for changing the spell to make it more lore-friendly while still offering options for those feeble 'good' warlocks.

Just remember, fey and other pacts are still against BG ic law.

Also, people can claim anything, how would one tell the difference between a fiend or feylock

Cenerae wrote:@neg what prompted all of this was a discussion on discord where I pointed out that there is no actual support for the other pacts that the server wants to claim support for - the spell graphics and effects support the 'classic' warlock - a demonic or infernal pact. Which makes claiming a fey or celestial pact a hard sell.

The issue here (aside from majority of warlocks being tied to baatezu) is that none of the rulebooks explain how warlocks work. The source of power is uncelar, but it is most likely not divine, so they can't really grant "spells" in traditioal way. So, no real reason to think that your eldritch blast will look any different if it is powered by chaotically crazy fey.

Also, the pact itself is not even required. That pact requirement was introduced in revision 4, and in 3.5 warlock power source is ambiguous. If you read fiendish codex II you'll realize that a chance of making a warlock pact for a mortal is zero. That's why Complete Arcane says "font of burning magic". Pact-makers are blackguards. Warlocks are "dark sorcerers". The only thing that is certain is that source of their power is definitely somethign really bad.

Warlocks in 3.5 are "dark sorcerers" with ambiguous power source. And that's part of the fun. Your character may not even know where the powers originate from, but one day, the creature that si source of the power may arrive and make demands. Or worse.

YourMoveHolyMan wrote: Also, people can claim anything, how would one tell the difference between a fiend or feylock

You wouldn't be able to.

The way I see it whoever is responseible for powers might be simply wiring warlock's soul in special way so it'll be able to tap into... whatever place the raw magical energy is coming from.

NegInfinity wrote:Also, the pact itself is not even required. That pact requirement was introduced in revision 4, and in 3.5 warlock power source is ambiguous. If you read fiendish codex II you'll realize that a chance of making a warlock pact for a mortal is zero. That's why Complete Arcane says "font of burning magic". Pact-makers are blackguards. Warlocks are "dark sorcerers". The only thing that is certain is that source of their power is definitely somethign really bad.

This isn't entirely true. Complete Arcane says that almost all warlocks' powers originate from a pact ultimately: souls traded for supernatural power. It's just not necessarily a pact arranged by the warlock themselves; it might have been a pact made by an ancestor instead. There is mention that some warlocks are simply "marked out by supernatural forces as conduits and tools," so there are at least a few that don't derive from a pact, but pacts are the main source.

I can see merit in the idea though that perhaps the warlock powers were not part of the terms of the deal. Perhaps the pact was made for something else, and the development of warlock powers occurred just as an unintended byproduct of being exposed to fiendish or faerie energies (or from being born to someone who had been so exposed). I don't really think that was the intent in CA, and I've always disliked the concept of warlocks that gained their power through no actual choice or fault of their own as it breaks the theme of the class, but it's not an unreasonable idea.

Rhifox wrote: This isn't entirely true.

Which part isn't entirely true?

Complete arcane on the first page says "Many warlocks serve patrons, and the formed pacts long ago", but at the next page it says: "Warlocks are born, not made" and "But a few blameless individuals are simply marked by the supernatural forces as conduits and tools".

And below it "The exact nature of a warlock's origin is up to the player to decide: just as a sorcerer is not beholden to the magic-wielding ancestor that bequehted his bloodline with arcane power, a warlock is not bound to follow the source that gifted him with magic".

What's true is that lore is ambiguous and does not explicitly require a pact, like blackguard PRC (in case of blackguard you can't weasel out of pact making. A fiend is required)

I looked into this stuff when my warlock character's were active. The main sources of information are complete mage and complete arcane, and while complete mage mentions pacts, complete arcane is much more ambiguous on the matter.

Either way.

Rhifox wrote: I've always disliked the concept of warlocks that gained their power through no actual choice or fault of their own as it breaks the theme of the class, but it's not an unreasonable idea.

I actually love this scenario, and as I said, gaining warlock powers by making a pact yourself is insanely improbable event.

See, when it is not a characters choice, in the beginning you have more or less innocent character with taint of evil. Maybe it is someone sitting at the edge of NE/TN axis. And past that point you have an intrigue regarding what is going to happen with that character - either the world pushes him further towards path of darkness, or it gets further seduced by power... or perhaps there will be a path towars good in the end. And in addition to that, there's the whole thing with uncertainty and fear where character doesn't know who gave them the gift of power, and whether they're onto them. So... there's a tempting power at character's fingertips and a shadow looming over them. This setup is simply beautiful.

Of course... the reality is that weakly evil and TN will be ruthlessly pushed towards darkness by the events that happen in the world. My first character on the server wanted to be a weaponmaster. Ended up becoming a hellfire warlock (I never rcrd the char), evil through and through - because of couple of encounters with forces of good. That was an amazing experience... but I digress.

NegInfinity wrote:

Rhifox wrote: This isn't entirely true.

Which part isn't entirely true?

"Long ago, [the warlock] (or in some cases, their ancestors) forged grim pacts with dangerous extraplanar powers, trading portions of their souls in exchange for supernatural power."

"... [the warlock is] still chained by the old pacts through which they acquired their powers."

"Some are the descendants of people who trafficked with demons and devils long ago. Some seek out the dark powers as youths, driven by ambition or the desire for power, but a few blameless individuals are simply marked by the supernatural forces as conduits and tools."

While there are the bits about getting it by happenstance, the implication that I personally get is that the majority ultimately derives from a pact, either directly by the warlock or by an ancestor. Getting it by simply "being marked" feels to me to be the exception rather than the norm.

I'm not saying that non-pacts aren't possible, just that the impression I get seems to be that pacts are the primary way you get warlock powers. But any origin is possible, of course.

Rhifox wrote: I've always disliked the concept of warlocks that gained their power through no actual choice or fault of their own as it breaks the theme of the class, but it's not an unreasonable idea.

I actually love this scenario, and as I said, gaining warlock powers by making a pact yourself is insanely improbable event.

I don't really see how it's improbable? I've gone through Fiendish Codex II and I'm not seeing any bit that implies warlock pacts are never done. If you're thinking that it's because bestowing magic might be a serious expenditure and therefore they wouldn't want to do it, I don't know about that. There's no indication quite how much unlocking that power is worth. Is it a 7 on the scale of Faustian rewards? A 4? A 3? That's not made clear. It's possible warlock powers are easier to do than other things they could offer, while also serving the purpose of making the warlock a conduit of infernal/abyssal energy on the Material Plane, indirectly spreading fiendish corruption (and, in comparison to providing "normal" magic, the corrupting effect of dark eldritch power likely helps insure that a damned soul stays damned).

Of course, you do have to get in contact with the creature, and in the case of chaotic creatures also convince it to spare you its time (devils are probably easier because they want to make a deal), and that can be difficult. Honestly, though, it's really no different from a fiend-worshipping cleric in my eyes. Both are given magical power, just the cleric represents the idea of the evil cult while the warlock represents the individual mad witch or wizard that communes with fiends and spirits for magic.

This setup is simply beautiful.

It can certainly work, yeah. Of course, that kind of 'natural' warlock is still typically choosing to pursue evil/chaos, because as long as they are actively using their magic and gaining warlock levels they're not entirely innocent. The difference between that, and a warlock who gained their powers through a deliberate pact is really in where the character is coming from: The pact-maker is likely someone that has nothing (or they at least believe they need more), potentially desperate, and they choose to give what they have left for power, while the 'natural' warlock is coming from a place of power and having to resist the temptation to use it. I prefer the former, and it's certainly much more applicable for actually leveling a warlock. The latter feels like a good backstory for someone that only has a dip in warlock (or has a fiendish heritage feat, or is a tiefling) but is developing in other classes instead, because they want to resist using their inborn powers.

Rhifox wrote: I don't really see how it's improbable? I've gone through Fiendish Codex II and I'm not seeing any

Fiendish Codex II includes a nifty table that lists rewards for selling ones soul (page 24). Rewards are ... pitiful, and less powerful than becoming a warlock. Someone who starts as a warlock at level 1 would need to make a pact at level 0, before they started their journey. Fiendish Codex also clearly states that devils usually prefer to collect the soul as soon as possible, meaning they arrange an "accident" for their target as soon as the wish is granted.

Also, "Warlocks are born, not made". From complete arcane. Meaning you can't become one.

That's why it is improbable.

From Complete Arcane:

Ambitious and often unprincipled, humans are the most likely to seek out the dangerous shortcuts to power that lead to life as warlocks.

SEEK OUT. That is a decision. Even if you had the latent ability to become a warlock, it yet remains something that must be unlocked or chosen, or else it is something that was done to your family long before you can remember.

Yes, it does say warlocks are born, not made, in one paragraph, then it gives us this gem. To me, this suggests that the way they are "born" is with these terrible powers locked inside them, or the ability to access them tucked away. Mortals, after all, do not entirely understand magic. But a powerful enough being can unlock them - often for a price.

Warlocks are described as a 'missing link' for magic, and as channeling magic in a way wizards and sorcerers can only dream (see: use their abilities willy-nilly, just by instinct). It may be entirely possible for a warlock to be able to eventually unlock their powers on their own - but to me, if that is the case, then a devil or the like may relish the idea of giving a warlock the powers they could have earned in their own time (by giving them the key, so to speak). Notably, you have different paragraphs saying different things about how the warlock gets their powers. You just happen to be focusing on one specific point.

To me, this tells me that the writers who wrote Complete Arcane were waffling between ideas, or perhaps wanted to leave the option open for warlocks to derive their power from different sources, even themselves, to facilitate whatever roleplay someone may have. If that is the case, then it's the server's decision as to what lore they follow.

The server lore has chosen the quote I quoted at the start when discussing warlocks, and also the quote that warlocks channel their power in a way unlike mages. But most importantly...

The DMs have discussed warlock pacts, and below are the pacts the DMs support. Other pacts are not disallowed, but won't be supported by DMs. If you wish your warlock biography to be approved by the DMs, you will have to be pacted to one of the pact givers from below.

From here:Click! First paragraph, italicized.

Finally, also from that link:

Whatever the source of the power however, no power ever comes for free, and all warlock pacts expect compensation, be it in the form of servitude, or the payment of your soul when your time is up.

So this tells me that while, yes, some warlocks may well inherit a pact that demands things of them, others outright ARE able to choose to get these warlock powers. If we go with your 'born, not made' piece as well, then go back to where I mentioned the idea of them having their inherent abilities unlocked by someone else as a quick fix.

If you want, you can suggest to the DM team that warlocks be allowed to have NO pacts, having discovered a way to channel their powers without help from an outside. But as it stands, your warlock backstory is only approved by the DM team if you choose to have it derived from one of the pacts, and the pact may either be inherited or it may be one YOU chose. Yes, the player characters can choose to get these powers via pacts. Them's the breaks.

NegInfinity wrote:

Rhifox wrote: I don't really see how it's improbable? I've gone through Fiendish Codex II and I'm not seeing any

Fiendish Codex II includes a nifty table that lists rewards for selling ones soul (page 24). Rewards are ... pitiful, and less powerful than becoming a warlock. Someone who starts as a warlock at level 1 would need to make a pact at level 0, before they started their journey. Fiendish Codex also clearly states that devils usually prefer to collect the soul as soon as possible, meaning they arrange an "accident" for their target as soon as the wish is granted.

Complete Mage outright states that the granting of warlock powers is one kind of offer on the table in infernal pacts (as quoted in the Warlock Pacts thread people have linked):
Again, there is nothing to indicate that warlock powers rank higher than what that table can offer. You say the rewards are less potent than becoming a warlock, but I don't see that. The highest ranked rewards listed are a 1-point bonus to an attribute, gaining a feat, or gaining a spell slot, and those are only 5, 4, or 3 respectively out of a 7-point scale. To me, warlock powers probably constitute a level 7 reward. High for the table but not beyond what can be offered, as granting warlock powers doesn't actually amount to much beyond opening the warlock's soul to extraplanar energies. It's also, again, modified by the fact that of A) having corruption literally etched on the warlock's soul helps make the damnation 'stick', as it's always there to tempt them, B) being a conduit of fiendish energy on the Material Plane makes the warlock essentially spread corruption wherever they go, and C) making the warlock a potentially potent pawn for worldly affairs if they develop the powers they were given. While yes, many devils do try to kill pact-makers as soon as the pact is made to regain the power and get the soul, that isn't always the case:
And I don't see how starting at level 1 is a problem for pact-locks. For one, you can always multiclass into warlock later in life, but you can always just be someone that made the pact early in life. Like I said, it's a typical fiend-worshipper concept to have started with nothing, and in a moment of desperation choose make a pact to gain access to power. Level 1 warlocks starting with the forging of the pact as the origin story is hardly beyond the origins of other classes. Spirit shamans make their own pacts at level 0, being a wizard means you took the time (often years), effort, and money to get magical training, and, of course, there's clerics, who, just like a warlock, are given their powers from level 1 by becoming part of a supernatural being's clergy and being outright chosen to be a vessel for that supernatural being's power (a being that can be a fiend). If anything, the starting at level 1 proves that it is no real skin off the fiend's back to grant of warlock powers, because a level 1 warlock is quite weak; they're no more capable than some knight's squire or a wizard apprentice.

Also, "Warlocks are born, not made". From complete arcane. Meaning you can't become one.

Except for all the other quotes from that same description that say you can. That line always read as a poorly written because it's made quite clear from the rest of the description that a warlock gaining their powers via a direct pact they themselves made is one of several potential origin choices. While 3.5e warlocks can certainly gain their powers through simple heritage or even supernatural event, like sorcerers, plenty others gain it from direct pacts they themselves chose to enter into. That is said in Complete Arcane, and in Complete Mage. Both origins are doable.

Rhifox wrote: And I don't see how starting at level 1 is a problem for pact-locks.

You'll need to negotiate the pact prior to level 1, meaning your character's social/diplomacy skills are zero. 1st level also tend to represent several years of training. Meaning if a warlock is young then he or she somehow successfully negotiated a pact at the age of 12 or 14. I can't find a table, but IIRC the "prior to young adult age" had mental stat penalties.

Rhifox wrote: For one, you can always multiclass into warlock later in life,

Which would simply indicate latent abilities awakening. Same thing as picking a sorcerer level late (the dragon blood thing). This is in line with "warlocks are born, not made".

Rhifox wrote: That line always read as a poorly written because it's made quite clear from the rest of the description that a warlock gaining their powers via a direct pact they themselves made is one of several potential origin choices.

This line always indicated that things are not clear cut and are open to interpretation. Meaning a pact-less warlock can be a thing (doesn't mean it is a common thing). Or blood-ties warlock can be a thing. If the class description directly said that "the power ALWAYS originates from a pact made by the user", things would be different, but such line is not found in source books.

Instead it is "the origin of power is open to player's interpretation".

Rhifox wrote: Again, there is nothing to indicate that warlock powers rank higher than what that table can offer.

Well, the way I see it, a mortal's value for a devil is on the level of a hamburger. The soul of mortal gives off a small amount of energy, is used to fuel devil promotion process, and it takes a LOT of energy to promote someone. This is visible from the reward table, where maximum reward won't even take you to the next level. So, the reasonable idea is to grant the wish, and then kill them on the spot and gather the soul.

To prevent that from happening the mortal would need to be highly intelligent or highly wise or highly versed in dealings of the baatezu. For a warlock int/wis are dump stats, and at level 0 their lore(planes) is zero. There are exceptions - as in highly valuable high value individuals that would in the long generate more souls for the baator, but this is not a level 0 bloke in random village, for sure.

Basically... think about it this way. You went to store and bought some food. You paid for it. You're now hungry. What can your food do in order to convince you not to eat it and preserve on the shelf for a few decades instead?

Same thing with devil-mortal dealings. All kind of cults and sinister organizations are entirely different deal, however, because those create long-term influx of souls for baator. This is how "blood-ties" pact could be made, for example. Likewise devils love messing with mortal bloodlines, so that could result in spawns of tiefling. So, in those scenarios I could see warlocks being born.

But random dude in the middle of nowhere suddenly deciding "hey, I wanna have glowy purple hands too!" - I'm not seeing how it could possibly work. That's why I don't buy the whole "I made the pact myself!" thing.

Instead it is "the origin of power is open to player's interpretation".

Or, just as importantly, the DM's. Things don't fly at a table unless a DM gives a go-ahead.

And the server rules state that warlocks become warlocks through specific pacts; that you CAN play other pacts (or not have one!), but it won't have official DM team approval.

You'll need to negotiate the pact prior to level 1, meaning your character's social/diplomacy skills are zero.

You defeat the first sentence with the second sentence. How could a wizard go through wizarding school if he didn't ever have magical abilities? He wouldn't be able to cast a cantrip, and he wouldn't have the Knowledge: Arcana skill and such to graduate from his classes! Well, clearly, he must have been able to learn it, because after years of dedication he did.

Sometimes, stuff falls into a backstory situation. Or sometimes stuff just exists outside of the simulation that is the game itself, and has to be explained by other means. Sometimes you have Commoners or Adepts becoming character classes and trading out their NPC levels for PC levels. Sometimes you have DM fiat.

Whatever the case, the argument of "well before level 1 you don't have skills so NYEH" is silly.

Meaning if a warlock is young then he or she somehow successfully negotiated a pact at the age of 12 or 14. I can't find a table, but IIRC the "prior to young adult age" had mental stat penalties.

You know? I think that's actually very believable. Teens have plenty of intellect; they just don't have the actual education or self-awareness to make good decisions, typically speaking. That is, a teenager is just as capable of absorbing new information and understanding difficult concepts, but they don't necessarily have the experience or traits necessary - the traits summarized by the D&D statistic "Wisdom" - as well as an adult can.

Ergo, a fourteen year old might very well be able to negotiate a pact, and because they think they're the smartest cookie around won't realize how goddamned stupid it is for them to try and do that. In fact, I think that's going to be my next character: someone that made a TERRIBLE choice as a kid. Yeah. This works.

I can't find a table, but IIRC the "prior to young adult age" had mental stat penalties.

The only thing I remember for young characters is in Pathfinder - click. Older characters are covered here, under aging effects.

Which would simply indicate latent abilities awakening. Same thing as picking a sorcerer level late (the dragon blood thing). This is in line with "warlocks are born, not made".

...unless you wanted to roleplay accepting a pact. Which you could.

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I think what's noteworthy here is that while you are this singular line, everything should lead back to the original topic: are we going to add new powers or not? Your original argument was "No, because that's lore-breaking," but if the powers come from sources like demons, devils, the fey, etc., then it doesn't seem terribly amiss for shapeshifting powers to be provided.

And the DM team does say those pacts are the pacts that exist: celestial, demon, devil, fey, slaadi. Am I missing any? And because those forms exist, and because shapechanging stuff for warlocks IS in the game, the suggestion is just to provide more shapechanging options in a medium where this is already accepted and in lore where, yes, warlocks get their power from the patrons I just listed.

Given that, it seems ENTIRELY sensible to allow new shapechanging options. If they exist, why would a warlock whose powers come from the Fey - whether simply unlocked or actually GIVEN by the Fey via a pact - turn into a goddamned Hellhound? Why not a Fey creature? "Give more options" is the answer, because you bet your butt those shapeshifting powers aren't gonna be removed any time soon.

And while I understand that you like the concept of the warlock whose magic stems from a source independent of Pacts, I will quote the DM team one last time...

The DMs have discussed warlock pacts, and below are the pacts the DMs support. Other pacts are not disallowed, but won't be supported by DMs. If you wish your warlock biography to be approved by the DMs, you will have to be pacted to one of the pact givers from below.

So, can you do it? Yes. But that's not the server lore. The server lore says that if you're a warlock, you MUST be Pacted with the Celestials, Demons, Devils, Fey, or Slaadi to get your warlock powers. You made a pact - yes, perhaps before level 1, or before actual play, or before your character had PC class levels - or inherited one. That's just how it is.

You're not disallowed from doing it your way, but you can't tell other people they're doing it wrong because this is the Lore on BGTSCC.

Khazrak wrote:Teens have plenty of intellect; they just don't have the actual education or self-awareness to make good decisions, typically speaking.

Uh-huh. Meaning they'll make a pact with a devil, the devil will grant the wish, then kill them and harvest the soul.

That's the problem.

Khazrak wrote: Your original argument was "No, because that's lore-breaking," but if the powers come from sources like demons, devils, the fey, etc., then it doesn't seem terribly amiss for shapeshifting powers to be provided.

The answer is the same - I'm against anything that doesn't come from rulebooks.

The entities that grant power aren't gods and do not grant spells. Warlock powers are not spells either. Warlocks do not pray for powers. If you want shapeshifting invocation, there's dark discorporation and mask of flesh I linked earlier.

As for wanton modification of existing powers for no reason - I'm against it.

Khazrak wrote:So, can you do it? Yes. But that's not the server lore. The server lore says that if you're a warlock, you MUST be Pacted with the Celestials, Demons, Devils, Fey, or Slaadi to get your warlock powers. You made a pact - yes, perhaps before level 1, or before actual play, or before your character had PC class levels - or inherited one. That's just how it is.

You're crossing the line here and pose your interpretation of bgtscc rules as an official stance. you're neither DM nor Staff.

The current situation is that ... somebody, somewhere most likely has a hold on your warlocks soul.

That does not mean that your character made the pact themselves.

NegInfinity wrote:You're crossing the line here and pose your interpretation of bgtscc rules as an official stance. you're neither DM nor Staff.

The current situation is that ... somebody, somewhere most likely has a hold on your warlocks soul.

That does not mean that your character made the pact themselves.

You seemed to ignore one of my lines:

You made a pact - yes, perhaps before level 1, or before actual play, or before your character had PC class levels - or inherited one.

See the bolded text. This is the line where I acknowledge and clarify that I am not, in fact, claiming that you cannot inherit your powers from a pact someone else made.

But the point stands that it seems VERY clear your character could have made the pact themselves, given the way the rules/lore is written. And you seem INCREDIBLY dismissive of the idea of a Pact existing before the character is in play, yet for a character to be a warlock at level 1 that's a necessity...

...or, y'know, you realize that D&D is a simulation and therefore you just step outside the simulation when actually doing the backstory where the Pact was probably made. Not everything has to exist within the microcosm of a dice roll, including Pacts. I certainly won't make an attack roll vs. AC 10 (an empty tile) to see if I don't somehow botch with a 1 and shit myself while in the latrine. (This is a hyperbolic situation, but I think you catch my drift.)

And I don't claim to be a translator of rulings or anything, but that ruling is pretty darned clear-cut. You CAN do a non-pact, or you CAN have a pact with someone besides the listed ones, but the DM team won't give official approval. Your backstory won't get stomped on, but it won't get the greenlight (which probably means in-game support) either.

Uh-huh. Meaning they'll make a pact with a devil, the devil will grant the wish, then kill them and harvest the soul.

That's the problem.

Or the Devil realizes, as others have pointed out, that the existence of this character in the world will cause more evil and inevitably bring more souls into the fold (perhaps by other teens willing to make the same deal). If you KNOW their soul is going to be yours, why immediately stomp them? If they have potential and they're already bound to you, let them be your unwitting pawn, then leech the soul away the moment they stop being useful?

Or maybe they made a pact with the Fey, either good or evil. Maybe those Fey don't want to take them away immediately, but use them for their own purposes, in their own games of intrigue against other Fey. Maybe the Fey see them as an ally earned, and plan to keep them - or, more likely, as a servant or plaything.

Maybe the Slaadi made the deal just for the (do-me) of it?

Maybe the Celestials made an actually fair deal with this teenager, carefully explaining what could happen and what the weight of the power is, but needing an agent immediately to serve their needs?

Demons, now, DEMONS I'd expect to be stupid enough to just eat the soul and run. It's a quick stop at McSouls for them! Trashy teen soul, two pence! Disgusting but satisfying.

The answer is the same - I'm against anything that doesn't come from rulebooks.

The entities that grant power aren't gods and do not grant spells. Warlock powers are not spells either. Warlocks do not pray for powers. If you want shapeshifting invocation, there's dark discorporation and mask of flesh I linked earlier.

As for wanton modification of existing powers for no reason - I'm against it.

Yet we're not playing a server that's 100% by the books, or on a GAME that's 100% by the books. It may not be full of homebrew content everywhere you look, but it's got some homebrew here and there, it's got its own takes on stuff from rulebooks, it's got adaptations on stuff from rulebooks that exist in that form because the game engine wasn't designed with 100% 3.5 accuracy in mind...

Warlocks already can turn into Hellhounds. The lore you're citing has already been broken. Let them turn into other creatures that suit their individual pacts, I say, and end it rightly. *pommel throw*

As for the idea of there being no reason? Guess what: the reason is the powers only suit someone that is playing a Devil pacted warlock (turning into a Hellhound, which is Lawful Evil), but clearly the DM team also approves of Demon, Celestial, Fey, and Slaadi pacted warlocks. So, institute versions of the spell to let them turn into other nasty critters that better suit the other pacts.

And finally, if the creation of new invocations made warlocks more interesting and fun to play without breaking game balance? I say go for it. We'll have to disagree there.