Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

If the only apparent issue is drow spell resistance, then do away with it while they're on the surface. If they want to be up there, then they do so knowing that they will have to deal with magical threats like everyone else does. It's not like they're being short changed on their level cap or anything, they won't suddenly be incredibly weak vs the ECL 0 races or the monsters on the surface.

However, I expect that nobody will be satisfied with any outcome, and keeping the 'wall' in place at least stops giving an incentive for people to be grinding where they're not meant to be. So the status quo will probably be the better option for sake of sanity. Which is a shame, because having it there just says that the playerbase isn't mature enough to be able to follow the rules without having them enforced.

NegInfinity wrote:

chad878262 wrote:I'm familiar with the principle...The current mechanical implementation follows it.

There needs to be something in place to address the PvP issue as you called out. implementing penalties makes players at a disadvantage in pvp while also discouraging being in the wrong place for grinding purposes.

Flasmix suggestion was reasonable. Locking out of surface is reasonable.

Surface suddenly acquiring properties of negative energy plane should be made into a separate proposition in a different thread.

Appears most voters don't like your 'simple' or 'reasonable' solutions. If the issue is PvP I offered some options that would make PC's weaker on the side they don't belong, thus discouraging PvP. *shrug* or most likely the current implementation will be left as is.

chad878262 wrote: Appears most voters don't like your 'simple' or 'reasonable' solutions. If the issue is PvP I offered some options that would make PC's weaker on the side they don't belong, thus discouraging PvP. *shrug* or most likely the current implementation will be left as is.

Trying to be sarcastic does not win arguments, only make other people think less of the one trying to be sarcastic. Try behaving like Wirg for a change.

The suggestion, honestly, should've been forwarded to DM team, because polls in suggestion section section has always been meaningless. The poll results will be dominated by the portion of populace that hangs out on forums and will not be accessible to the rest of the players.

cosmic ray wrote: All the options in this poll seembad to me. Might as well keep things as they are, since they are more consistent.

I tried to come up with a saner and less OOC alternative to the script wall. That's all there is to it.

If the compromises listed don't work, then there's not much left to do.

cosmic ray wrote:Option #3: play on a real RP server.

*Sigh*

I'm slowly gravitating to that options myself, but at the moment I'm a victim of sunk cost fallacy in the form multiple shelved epic level characters, including one level 29 and level 30.

My last "main" has been retired, and the possible replacement got rejected. So...

NegInfinity wrote:

chad878262 wrote: Appears most voters don't like your 'simple' or 'reasonable' solutions. If the issue is PvP I offered some options that would make PC's weaker on the side they don't belong, thus discouraging PvP. *shrug* or most likely the current implementation will be left as is.

Trying to be sarcastic does not win arguments, only make other people think less of the one trying to be sarcastic. Try behaving like Wirg for a change.

The suggestion, honestly, should've been forwarded to DM team, because polls in suggestion section section has always been meaningless. The poll results will be dominated by the portion of populace that hangs out on forums and will not be accessible to the rest of the players.

Wasn't being sarcastic, simply stating the facts as they show up. That said I agree polls are pretty meaningless, but if you are going to use one to show some point you are trying to make, you should accept the findings either way, not only if they show the response you are hoping for. I could ask you to try behaving like Flasmix...or Steve...or any of a number of other posters, because frankly you are one of very few who dismisses anyone who disagree's with him as presenting invalid arguments while presenting your own opinions as facts. If you want to comment on how others should behave, you aught to take your own advice and examine the tone and message of your own posts.

I also agree the suggestion should have been forwarded to the DM Team. Though I am fairly certain that the implementation as it is right now is exactly as they would like it to be, perhaps you will get a different response. I wish you luck in the endeavor.

NegInfinity wrote:

cosmic ray wrote: All the options in this poll seembad to me. Might as well keep things as they are, since they are more consistent.

I tried to come up with a saner and less OOC alternative to the script wall. That's all there is to it.

If the compromises listed don't work, then there's not much left to do.

cosmic ray wrote:Option #3: play on a real RP server.

*Sigh*

I'm slowly gravitating to that options myself, but at the moment I'm a victim of sunk cost fallacy in the form multiple shelved epic level characters, including one level 29 and level 30.

My last "main" has been retired, and the possible replacement got rejected. So...

Yeah, it's not easy after so much time invested here, I know.

However, the truth is that, while there certainly are good, competent people in the current DM staff, there are enough that are incompetent as DMs and allow their OOC gripes to influence both their performance as DMs and their roleplay as players, leading to a pretty bad state of affairs at the moment, and the player count shows it.

I, myself, have spent most of my limited free time lately roleplaying with "wooden" scripted NPCs in single-player RPGs. It's sad when scripted NPCs give you better RP than human beings.

To end on a positive note, this may very well be just a lull before a comeback. We just have to wait out either a change of hearts or a change of staff.

cosmic ray wrote:Option #3: play on a real RP server.

Where do those exist for NWN2?

There are a few, but they lack players.

Steve wrote:

cosmic ray wrote:Option #3: play on a real RP server.

Where do those exist for NWN2?

There are several for NWN1.

cosmic ray wrote:There are a few, but they lack players.

So...is it fair to ask whether "high" RP, or "pure" RP or "something more than BGTSCC" RP is actually what people want?

Steve wrote:

cosmic ray wrote:There are a few, but they lack players.

So...is it fair to ask whether "high" RP, or "pure" RP or "something more than BGTSCC" RP is actually what people want?

I suspect the issue is more along the lines of: [to me] Medium RP means RP is favored and encouraged but other playstyles are not directly discouraged.
However, in practice the "payoff" for RP can only really occur when a DM, for preference one who has knowledge of, and is interested in your story, is online and has the free time to assist you. While the rewards for mechanical activities: looting, grinding, powerbuilding are available independently, and therefore more easily.
If you place the emphasis on RP your character ends up at a disadvantage mechanically. Because there are so many power builds in circulation there is a lot server content tailored to them, along with epic level events where merely "regular" characters become an irrelevance; not to mention the issues with PvP: You may be the Dread Pirate Roberts, famed for your daring raids and superlative skill with a blade, but you cannot begin to compete with Nobby Noname who spent their time running in circles stabbing xvarts in the face and opening the same dozen chests every day.
This leads to many people emphasizing the power-build, loot, grind, aspect of the game to ensure their ability to participate and RP ends up taking a back seat.

I could write a lot more but I think I'm incoherent enough as it is.

tl;dr: In my opinion it's not that BGtSCC needs to be "High RP" it's that RP, medium or otherwise, is only occasionally rewarded while grinding and looting will always pay off leading to many people favoring the loot and grind over RP.

NeonAvenger wrote: I suspect the issue is more along the lines of: [to me] Medium RP means RP is favored and encouraged but other playstyles are not directly discouraged.

The issue is - for me - that bgtscc is rapidly degenerating into "forum squabble server" and "let's herd players through scripts" server. Or maybe even "build competition" server.

And the element I enjoyed when I first joined is dying if not already dead.

The element I enjoyed the most was illusion of a living world, and last time I played it was next to non-existent (lots of empty maps with no people), forum squabbles didn't help to create it, OOC scripts didn't help to create it. And practices like "parallel world RP" employed in auction forum and guild subforums isn't helping. The world looks like a decoration now, and not as a living place.

The sad truth is that despite bgtscc being the king few years ago, right now there are nwn1 servers that can provide experience comparable or even superior to what bgtscc could give at the height of its glory. And this is sad.

All things considered the noloot/noxp script is just one more nail for bgtscc coffin. Several people tried to change the situation, and it resulted in a whole bunch of nothing happening. So... time to give up, I suppose.

It is fair to say that if you, the Player, make an effort to bring X-type Role-play to BGTSCC, you take on a responsibility to yourself and others. This responsibility—I don't know what else to call it atm—is multifaceted, but I'll focus on just 2 aspects: a) self-satisfaction with what you bring, b) supportive sportsmanship toward another/others.

There have ALWAYS been Rules and Script Prevention schemes on BGTSCC. Whether now or at the beginning was better or worse, well...everyone has their subjective opinion. But in light of those constantly existing Rules and Scripts, there has ALSO ALWAYS been Role-play happening, and, personal goals being manifested and met.

When faced with a box-in scenario, one has to think outside the box in order to break out the box.

I also think there are way bigger issues to worry about, than whether a UD-born Character can get XP/Loot Topside, or a Surface-born Character gaining XP/Loot in the Basement.

And as far as I can tell, there is no Rule or Script against Players taking responsibility for their Goals and Storylines and RPing that with passion in order to—and I'm totally serious here—overcome those Rules and Script limitations.

But yeah, if you're not really here to RP with passion—my new choice of words in place of High Level Role-play—then you most likely won't be able to see your EPIC SNOWFLAKE GOALS manifest. I think it has always been rather clear that on BGTSCC, you need to invest HEAVILY in a particular Characters RP in order to see great effect on the Server.

It's true: grind and loot and get mechanically powerful to the Max Level Power, easily. But that will do nothing in terms of Role-play character development and influence and possibilities.

And it has always been true that wanting to roll around the Server and have no limits and play LOLZ-PWN games upon others, has always been discouraged, even the to degree where Players get banned.

Anyway, just to be clear: the so-called "Wall" that now exists via script to deny XP/Loot for domain-crossers, does not prevent Role-play. It attempts to discourage reasons to go somewhere in order to not really RP, but to grind and loot.

So yeah, call it a script to lesson the emphasis on Grinding and Looting. Which, I guess if you want to look at it funny like, is an attempt to bring BGTSCC up to a more high-level RP Server!

Whowouldathunkit?!?

Steve wrote:It is fair to say that if you, the Player, make an effort to bring X-type Role-play to BGTSCC, you take on a responsibility to yourself and others. This responsibility—I don't know what else to call it atm—is multifaceted, but I'll focus on just 2 aspects: a) self-satisfaction with what you bring, b) supportive sportsmanship toward another/others.

There have ALWAYS been Rules and Script Prevention schemes on BGTSCC. Whether now or at the beginning was better or worse, well...everyone has their subjective opinion. But in light of those constantly existing Rules and Scripts, there has ALSO ALWAYS been Role-play happening, and, personal goals being manifested and met.

When faced with a box-in scenario, one has to think outside the box in order to break out the box.

I also think there are way bigger issues to worry about, than whether a UD-born Character can get XP/Loot Topside, or a Surface-born Character gaining XP/Loot in the Basement.

And as far as I can tell, there is no Rule or Script against Players taking responsibility for their Goals and Storylines and RPing that with passion in order to—and I'm totally serious here—overcome those Rules and Script limitations.

But yeah, if you're not really here to RP with passion—my new choice of words in place of High Level Role-play—then you most likely won't be able to see your EPIC SNOWFLAKE GOALS manifest. I think it has always been rather clear that on BGTSCC, you need to invest HEAVILY in a particular Characters RP in order to see great effect on the Server.

It's true: grind and loot and get mechanically powerful to the Max Level Power, easily. But that will do nothing in terms of Role-play character development and influence and possibilities.

And it has always been true that wanting to roll around the Server and have no limits and play LOLZ-PWN games upon others, has always been discouraged, even the to degree where Players get banned.

Anyway, just to be clear: the so-called "Wall" that now exists via script to deny XP/Loot for domain-crossers, does not prevent Role-play. It attempts to discourage reasons to go somewhere in order to not really RP, but to grind and loot.

So yeah, call it a script to lesson the emphasis on Grinding and Looting. Which, I guess if you want to look at it funny like, is an attempt to bring BGTSCC up to a more high-level RP Server!

Whowouldathunkit?!?

Are you trying to look witty or something?

The whole wall of text you wrote doesn't really matter. The server took the wrong turn some time ago, and continues going that way. Things do not improve, but are getting worse, meanwhile there are senseless discussion on forums where people try to sound "profound". Except those discussions result in nothing happening.

Does not prevent roleplay? Sure. It isn't much of achievement, though. It is hard to think of anything that would prevent roleplay. Even bgtscc isn't necessary. You could uninstall nwn2, roleplay with yourself - in your own mind - and then turn it into a book. Who could've thought of that, huh...

Ha! And you're the one complaining about Forum squabble as contributing to the decline of the Server!



Go and actually try to make a positive difference, or STFU.