The Wilds CR 20 - Stone Demons DC 29 Fear Aura

[Hoihe]

Last I checked Wyverns can't cast dispel... Wand/scroll/potion of Deathward will do the trick. The server CR areas are balanced for a party, not solo. So CR20 is balanced around 3-5 level 20 PCs. Going Solo should be a bit of a challenge if you aren't level 24 or higher or have a really strong build. Do you really want the relatively few Underdark area's to be less of a challenge? What's the fun in playing PvE if it isn't difficult?

As to consumables costing gold and being dispelled in general.... *sigh* In what tabletop session did a DM make things easy for you? Consumables are part of tactics. They are not required for all builds, but in some circumstances they serve to cover up for a potential weakness. With the amount of gold you earn on average in a regular dungeon just with vendor 'trash' giving 1300 gold in some cases you can afford a few potions as an adventurer. If it gets dispelled, try a different tactic and/or note that the area is perhaps not a good place to be without a party.

All of this said, DC29 for an aura effect does seem a bit much for CR20 area, so I agree it should be lowered, probably down to ~20-24 IMO as it will still effect most non-caster builds about 50% of the time at level 20. However, is it possible dynamic spawns increased the area/monster CR and thus increased the DCs?

I like how the server is not tabletop when it's convenient and it's tabletop when it's convenient.

[chad878262]

I like how the server is not tabletop when it's convenient and it's tabletop when it's convenient.

I didn't say it was tabletop and your comment makes zero sense in the context of the discussion. I said in what tabletop session did a DM make things easy for you. That's it, nothing in there comparing NWN2 or BGtSCC to Tabletop. Was anything I said inaccurate? Was anything somehow indicating things are built specifically because of tabletop? Before you make a comment about the server decisions using convenience at least read what was actually written.

It's been stated before, but where Core rules work (i.e. don't negatively impact balance and are able to be scripted/coded to work properly) we do tend to favor them. However, not everything in Core rules works in an online environment where a DM is not ever-present and there are far more players than would ever exist in a tabletop session. So it is fair to say that things are not like tabletop when tabletop rules won't work in this environment and it is like tabletop when we can make it work as such and it doesn't have a negative impact otherwise.

[Sun Wukong]

maybe it is tactical. like i recall having trouble with the fear effect from the bears in troll claws, until i figured out how to make them not cast it. then i just repeated that strat if i needed to.

The difference between an aura and an ability that requires a use is that the aura is constantly active. When you enter the aura radious, you make a roll. If pathfinding sends the source of the aura to perform some jerky movements towards your character, this will often trigger multiple rolls within a single round as you 'enter and leave' the radious of the aura. Not to mention that were you to fail the save, your character will flee, and hence trigger more rolls that ensure that the 'panicked status' persists. This fact alone makes the Stone Demons far more deadly than the Grizzly Bears in Troll Claw Fjord.

Now, I have seen some bloated mob DCs... For example Illithids blasted with DC 26 will saves, and after gaining some levels those dropped to 19 and 22. Thus, it might be something similar with the Stone Demons, but frankly... I just looked at the aura DC and went:

Nope.

Nope.

Nope.

[aaron22]

sounds rough. your build may not be suited well to handle it. what is your will save anyway for an epic? i guess under 19 if it is proc-ing a bunch on you like that. stay away from the stone demons for gruumsh's sake!! nothing there you need that badly.

maybe the DC will be reduced, who knows. good luck anyway.

[chad878262]

Well, it is a CR 20 area so the will save DC should be based on going up against a party of level ~20 PCs. Part of the issue is UD PCs are all ECL races, but even without that, DC29 on an Aura at level 20 is a bit too high.

In this case I agree it should be lowered a bit, as I said before maybe down to ~20-24. However, I was wondering if it had anything to do with dynamic spawns since a level 20 Drow is ECL 22 which may cause the dynamic spawn system to increase the level of those Stone Demons. Even then, 29 still seems a bit high, but it's best to have all the information. I imagine Cubicle could take a look at the area spawns and Stone Demons in particular.

[onetwothree]

Just buy a protection from evil scroll there are no dispels in the wilds. The clerics themselves can't dispel. They used to gate a balor who would dispel but since the summon revamp they do not summon a balor anymore but a mob that doesnt dispel.

A protection from alignment scroll costs like 50 gold.

If you don't have UMD i suggest you get a helm that grants prot from alignment.

This area is way too easy anyway for the amount of xp you get. Especially the second one.

[Calodan]

Just buy a protection from evil scroll there are no dispels in the wilds. The clerics themselves can't dispel. They used to gate a balor who would dispel but since the summon revamp they do not summon a balor anymore but a mob that doesnt dispel.

A protection from alignment scroll costs like 50 gold.

If you don't have UMD i suggest you get a helm that grants prot from alignment.

This area is way too easy anyway for the amount of xp you get. Especially the second one.

Stop making sense!

I have like 3 helms of greater opposite alignment that cast prot from evil. Quite useful for this kind of thing.....

[Sun Wukong]

If you don't have UMD i suggest you get a helm that grants prot from alignment.

And again, why needlessly force the use of UMD? Additionally, can you name an actual NPC merchant that sells those helments? I recall those being random loot drop only, which meant that prior to dispel fix those had a cost of 200k+ a piece. After the dispel fix, I have not seen anyone bother selling one because even the Orcs in Sharptooth dispel the effect, etc.

This area is way too easy anyway for the amount of xp you get. Especially the second one.

Uh-huh. I have not actually gone to the second one, the CR 24 one I think, because in three-four rounds the cleric had dropped my character of 300 HP to under 80. In the second visit I encountered the insanely high fear DC, and haven't bothered since.

So perhaps you could mention what is your character, and all that.

Edit: Just saying that not all characters come with Evasion, light armor, high dexterity, and high reflex save progression. Thus if the spell DCs were raised, alongside with the previously mentioned fear aura, there are characters that will not save for half, they take the full damage.

[onetwothree]

These helms dont go for 200k+

This is supposedly the hardest area in the underdark why do you expect to solo it with a build that doesnt even put points into UMD?

If you do put points into UMD all you need to roflstomp this area are darkness and blindsight scrolls just saying

[Calodan]

If you don't have UMD i suggest you get a helm that grants prot from alignment.

And again, why needlessly force the use of UMD? Additionally, can you name an actual NPC merchant that sells those helments? I recall those being random loot drop only, which meant that prior to dispel fix those had a cost of 200k+ a piece. After the dispel fix, I have not seen anyone bother selling one because even the Orcs in Sharptooth dispel the effect, etc.

This area is way too easy anyway for the amount of xp you get. Especially the second one.

Uh-huh. I have not actually gone to the second one, the CR 24 one I think, because in three-four rounds the cleric had dropped my character of 300 HP to under 80. In the second visit I encountered the insanely high fear DC, and haven't bothered since.

So perhaps you could mention what is your character, and all that.

Edit: Just saying that not all characters come with Evasion, light armor, high dexterity, and high reflex save progression. Thus if the spell DCs were raised, alongside with the previously mentioned fear aura, there are characters that will not save for half, they take the full damage.

Bruh I sold my greater helms of opposite alignment for like 50k a piece......

I get what you are saying that it is frustrating as hell but again there is a easy fix and it costs very little to use. This is a magic world and you must be prepared to fight magic with magic. If you do not you will lose that is the point of the game.

[Sun Wukong]

This is a magic world and you must be prepared to fight magic with magic. If you do not you will lose that is the point of the game.

Calodan requests the removal of non-spellbook base classes and PRCs.

[Calodan]

This is a magic world and you must be prepared to fight magic with magic. If you do not you will lose that is the point of the game.

Calodan requests the removal of non-spellbook base classes and PRCs.

You misunderstand my point. There are many ways to use magic to ward yourself and quite frankly if you do not there are consequences for it in a magical world. I am not saying your frustration is not justified mind you. I got quite frustrated with epic areas on the surface with my Man at Arms build as well. It is the nature of the beast here with mundane non-magic fighters.

[Sun Wukong]

I am not saying your frustration is not justified mind you.

I am not here complaining due to frustration. My underdark character is a Drow Fighter/Blackguard/Frenzied Berserker/Divine Champion. Go to NWN2db, make it, look at the numbers it gets. Then go in game and add the available +4 equipment from the epic stores on top of the base stats the build has...

What you got in your hands is truly a non-magical PvE engine of destruction that gets more and more powerful with each additional level.

I know how to build. I know how to squeeze in as much mechanical power as possible. I know how to trick the AI and abuse its detection range. I have been on this server for a long time, on and off.

Now, either it is due to the monster scaling system, or the base stats of the monsters - - - but the fear DC is just way too high.

[Calodan]

I am not saying your frustration is not justified mind you.

I am not here complaining due to frustration. My underdark character is a Drow Fighter/Blackguard/Frenzied Berserker/Divine Champion. Go to NWN2db, make it, look at the numbers it gets. Then go in game and add the available +4 equipment from the epic stores on top of the base stats the build has...

What you got in your hands is truly a non-magical PvE engine of destruction that gets more and more powerful with each additional level.

I know how to build. I know how to squeeze in as much mechanical power as possible. I know how to trick the AI and abuse its detection range. I have been on this server for a long time, on and off.

Now, either it is due to the monster scaling system, or the base stats of the monsters - - - but the fear DC is just way too high.

I never said you did not know how to build. At this point it seems you are just itching for a fight because you are not getting the response you want. It is clear I am of a different opinion and so are you and that is okay.

Chad already said that it may be a bit too high and there may be some scaling happening they will look into that. IN THE MEANTIME GET YOU SOME POTIONS....And never look back until they figure it out and decide if your idea to lower the save has merit or not.

[Sun Wukong]

IN THE MEANTIME GET YOU SOME POTIONS...

NO. Potions are bad! A potion/scroll stack takes up an inventory slot that I could spend on carrying some mundane non-magical banded mail to a NPC merchant!

And I have a nasty habit of hoarding magical potions etc, and never ever using them. I mean, you should have seen my old Spirit Shaman and his 2-3 inventory pages worth of potions.

Anyhow, what is that other area called... Myconoid Cicles with the constant fortitude save DC spam? Myconoids spam it, and most have 1-2 casts at the start of each encounter. Then you need to roll 20 in survival to not be hit by another fortitude save from the enviromental mushrooms, but at least you get 5 points of experience if you do make the skill roll. The DC of these fortitude saves is about 20+~. Myconoid Thralls come with Knockdown, probably Improved, and everything has that Critical Hit Immunity to boot. I wouldn't want to go there on a sneak attack dice based sneak prior to level 21. With or without those potions/scrolls of Deathward.