Multiclassing Penalties - Should they exist?

[metaquad4]

if there was no xp penalty then there would be no favored classes because thats how you bypass penalty

and if there is no favored classes then there would be no racial stats, so all races would essentially be humans

and then race would be only for favor and not certain advantages when playing roles, halfling sneaks, aasimar paladins, elven wizards etc

Ah, the good old slippery slope fallacy. Well, if we remove favored classes, we clearly must also have no racial stats! 10/10 for bypassing logic and reason. 0/10 for presenting a good argument.

There is no reason to have multiclassing penalties in a persistent world setting. Perhaps it might have made sense where XP was limited, but XP is unlimited here. All it does is reward the person with more time, or make the grind more soul-crushing for the person with less time.

It does indeed serve no purpose here, but I suspect a lot of the opposition has trouble thinking beyond "its in PnP so it must be good for the server". After all, change is a scary thing. And homebrew rules are the root of all evil, naturally.

They certainly don't represent a race's natural talents in the least. That is better represented by + and - stats, after all, someone could say halflings make better thieves than anyone else, but everyone can take guild theif with impunity. That renders the RP side of the argument null and void, the fact that PRCs bypass it. It likely served some mechanical purpose in PnP, a long time ago (though, I can't think of a reason 3.5 would have it now-a-days).

+1 to removing them. They don't serve a purpose on this server, other than to extend the grinding process and constrict building even further.

[casadechrisso]

There is no xp penalty... i still get the same amount of xp with 2 classes as i did with one. This is how it should be... the less systems designed to punish players the better.

There is - maybe you levelled both classes evenly, picked a human/half elf, a prefered class or a PrC, but the multiclass penalty definitely exists and is noticable.

It does indeed serve no purpose here, but I suspect a lot of the opposition has trouble thinking beyond "its in PnP so it must be good for the server". After all, change is a scary thing. And homebrew rules are the root of all evil, naturally.

They certainly don't represent a race's natural talents in the least. That is better represented by + and - stats, after all, someone could say halflings make better thieves than anyone else, but everyone can take guild theif with impunity. That renders the RP side of the argument null and void, the fact that PRCs bypass it. It likely served some mechanical purpose in PnP, a long time ago (though, I can't think of a reason 3.5 would have it now-a-days).

+1 to removing them. They don't serve a purpose on this server, other than to extend the grinding process and constrict building even further.

Personally, I'm on your side, but I think we only represent one of the many different players and styles here - after all, BGTSCC is one of the last refuges for NWN2 multiplayer and all kinds of folks with different backgrounds come here to play because the options are so limited nowadays.

I have more than once encountered people who just didn't get my viewpoint and I didn't get theirs, but the server must cater to all of them because they're all valid. Like the PnP veterans, or the PvP players, the hardcore RPers, the socializers... some of them really don't mix well, I've personally been lectured for not playing evil as being a total arse to everyone, or that my feat choice is totally ridiculous and I will suffer for the rest of my life for not taking the other one instead - on the other hand I'm not getting the playstyle of others, often including PnPers and made quietly fun of them myself.

In any case, with such a big crowd and this being one of the last really active servers I think it makes sense to stick to the old rules and not confuse or piss off one or more of the groups completely. I can live with the fact that I have to abide to certain mechanical PnP rules, when it comes to roleplay I can simply avoid what I don't like.

[mrm3ntalist]

Ah, the good old slippery slope fallacy. Well, if we remove favored classes, we clearly must also have no racial stats! 10/10 for bypassing logic and reason. 0/10 for presenting a good argument.

Ha! I didnt know we were grading

I would give that more than 0/10. Maybe a 9 or even a 10. Whether we like it or not, Favored classes and XP penalties are part of dnd. They are not going away. Even if in the past, different elements of DnD were changed or even removed from this PW, there are many more other things that we would work on before even touching this.

Can I give you 10/10 for the effort to have the penalties removed?

[metaquad4]

Ah, the good old slippery slope fallacy. Well, if we remove favored classes, we clearly must also have no racial stats! 10/10 for bypassing logic and reason. 0/10 for presenting a good argument.

Ha! I didnt know we were grading

I would give that more than 0/10. Maybe a 9 or even a 10. Whether we like it or not, Favored classes and XP penalties are part of dnd. They are not going away. Even if in the past, different elements of DnD were changed or even removed from this PW, there are many more other things that we would work on before even touching this.

Can I give you 10/10 for the effort to have the penalties removed?

I'm not saying that we'll realistically remove them. This thread is about if they should exist, and my answer is no. Kinda like how murder and theft shouldn't exist, but we probably won't end up removing it from society regardless.

Still though, the fact that its part of dnd still doesn't present a good argument on why it should exist in a persistent world RP server. It doesn't really have a place in a persistent world like this one.

I mean, this mentality is even kinda the opposite of D&D's general philosophy, which is to create a world of our own making using the base rules as a general guideline. I.E. If a rule isn't liked or doesn't have a purpose in the medium or setting, it can be struck down by the players. D&D as a game is meant to be highly customizable both in lore and mechanics (and was meant to be messed with for the enjoyment of the players), and it always struck me as odd that certain communities can be so rigid with it. But I guess it was also made for the people who want to play in WotC's vision, rather than creating their own.

[Phantom]

Kinda like how murder and theft shouldn't exist,

...why not?!

[Calen]

I don't think it should exists on this server.


This rule is made for P&P and works for single player.
Since we're hardly following P&P rules here I don't see why this multi class penalty is suddenly one of those rules that have to be there.
All it does here is extend grinding, as getting exp through RP is less rewarding in terms of value.

In my eyes it is odd when it comes to penalties and other annoyances the core book is the reason, yet with p&p people don't suffer from lag/server crashes/pvm with out DM presence and wonky stealth mechanics.
Neither is there a 3-20 rule made up with the soul purpose of trying to balance the server.