Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.

[Steve]

I could imagine a new Feat like Combat Insight, where for Staffs, Wisdom REPLACES Strength when using a Staff.

This way the "change" proposed wouldn't affect existing builds (by upping their power),

[electric mayhem]

While intensive a reponse, and apparently well researched. So thankyou Sun.

Once again. People miss the mark.

This is about trying to support a basic Wis build. People that invest in Wis instead of STR on their builds aren't going to benefit from the STR benefits that everyone keeps boasting about.

Powerbuilders are going to powerbuild regardless of what you have in place for any class/race/feat etc yada so on and so forth. Why do we keep throwing up this defense against good ideas, of protecting the server from powerbuilders? When there are so many of them here that publicly boast about their knowledge of how to do it and are playing these in game anyway? Server hasn't imploded from them yet?

This is about trying to support a build line of monks that doesn't stretch the RP-ability of the character.
A basic wis priority ability monk. One that through years of training would know how to do more damage with a stick (much like they do with their fists) and not have to rely on brute force.

I'll be the first to admit. This idea does sound like a "I want my Cake and want to eat it too" request.

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8 (Quarterstaff Maximised)
+ 4 (Enchantment Bonus)
+ 13 (Strength modifier from base 25 strength with a Belt of Growth for +3)
+ 9 (Northlander Hewing strength modifier damage)
+ 8 (Wisdom Modifier from suggested change, base 23 with a +3 item)
+ 1d10 (Blazing Aura)
= 47.5~

Do the fisters not already get this and more? Did I hear correctly that NLH works for fisters? I imagine they don't get the 1.5x str, only 1x?
Also, not every build wants to use a Northern Iceman Axe hewing feat. Plenty of other feats to choose from.
Are you able to do up the maths to represent that for us for comparison please?

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I could imagine a new Feat like Combat Insight, where for Staffs, Wisdom REPLACES Strength when using a Staff.

This way the "change" proposed wouldn't affect existing builds (by upping their power),

This certainly has merit!

[Sun Wukong]

As for other monk damage outputs, currently that unarmed wisdom based Monk 20/Divine Champion 10 gets:

2d10 (Unarmed)
+ 1d10 (Blazing Aura)
+ 4 (Enchantment Bonus)
+ 1d6 (Fiery Fist)
+ 4 (Strength modifier with Belt of Growth)
= 28~

If they take the Northlander Hewing feat:
20 (Unarmed maximised)
+ 1d10 (Blazing Aura)
+ 4 (Enchantment bonus)
+ 1d6 (Fiery Fist)
+ 4 (Strength modifier with Belt of Growth)
+ 4 (Northlander Hewing bonus damage)
= 41~


Now, if you make entirely strength based Monk 30, you could get the following damage per hit:
3d10 (Unarmed)
+ 10 (Strength modifier)
+ 4 (Enchantment Bonus)
= 30.5~

And with Northlander Hewing it becomes as follows:
30 (Unarmed Maximised)
+ 10 (Strength modifier)
+ 4 (Enchantment bonus)
+ 10 (Northlander Hewing bonus damage)
= 54

Truly, a strength based monk's fist hits like a truck. However, it comes at the cost of AC, as you can see from below:

10 (Base)
+ 1 (Luck of Heroes)
+ 6 (Monk 30 AC bonus)
+ 3 (Tumble)
+ 4 (Dodge boots)
+ 4 (Armor enchantment)
+ 4 (Deflection echantment)
+ 4 (Natural armor enchantment)
+ 4~ (Wisdom modifier, with +3 or +4 item)
+ 4~ (Dexterity modifier, with +3 or +4 item)
- 2 (Northlander Hewing AC penalty)
= 42~

I suppose you could cross-class into UMD and use Shield Wand for +4 AC, but it doesn't change the fact that for a large part of this monk's career, the AC might feel way too low.



And I did not mention this previously. But a fist based monk needs that gauntlet/glove slot for +4 Enchantment Bonus. A quarterstaff using monk can use it for something else. For example he could wield those +4 Dexterity bracers, or +4 AC bracers that in turn frees their chest slot for something else.



As for:

I could imagine a new Feat like Combat Insight, where for Staffs, Wisdom REPLACES Strength when using a Staff.

What would you call it, Combat Intuitiveness?

An Aasimar Monk 20/Divine Champion 10 could be assumed to reach wisdom of at least:
20 (Base)
+ 7 (Ability increases)
+ 4 (Divine Champion bonus feats)
+ 2 (Regular epic feats)
+ 3 (Wisdom item)
= 36

That is a modifier of 13, which becomes +19 damage on a quarterstaff. Therefore, a wisdom based monk would be dealing avarage of 24~ damage with a regular mundane quarterstaff.

Thus the quarterstaff damage output would become:
2d4 (Quarterstaff)
+ 19 (Wisdom modifier)
+ 1d10 (Blazing Aura)
+ 4 (Enchantment Bonus)
= 33.5~

It would be superior to what an unarmed monk with a similar build can achieve, with or without Northlander Hewing. Northlander Hewing reduces number of attacks per round, alonside the -2 to AB and AC, thus our quarterstaff monk could just leave Greater Flurry of Blows active and pile on the damage. While being able to use Cold Iron and Alchemical Silver quarterstaff when needed, and having that glove slot for something more beneficial.

Edit:
I think it would just replace wisdom based unarmed monks with quarterstaff based monks.

[Steve]

A Combat Insight-like feat would also require Combat Expertise, for example. So burn up 2 Feats in order to apply WIS over STR to qstaff.

Additionally, using a qstaff doesn't allow for Stunning, unless you go for Willow Strike Feat as well, which is another 2 Feats burned up. AND, might i just sneak in that Willow Strike cancels your attacks, so best to use at the end of a round, and with lower AB. So if you miss, you not only burn up a Stunning attack use, but also your attacks that round.

Usually using up Feats DOES give you a mechanical gain...so.....

[Steve]

Or, if the dmg output would be just too high in terms of the "Standard," than EM also suggested that such a Feat like Combat Insight—but for WIS + qstaff—could also be 1/2 or 2/3 WIS bonus.

Or, perhaps a Nothlander Hewing-like Feat, where you sacrifice APR for DMG bonus.