Evil priest build

[chad878262]

thanks again for all the replies all of you. This has been very helpful. I will probably load up JEGS tonight and try a few things out. The F4/R16/GFK10 build sounds interesting, although the blackguard one does too. So many choices. I am married to the shield fighting for this character. I plan on him being a fighter/ infiltrator type. Think of an evil mercenary to the highest bidder. Will probably go human and build him like an old Dnd character I used to have.
Probably longsword or bastard sword.

Based on what you appear most interested in I think you will prefer the R16/F4/GFK10. R10/GFK10/BG10 will not be able to get the feats you need and even R16 build will be tight. Obviously R10/F10/GFK10 would have an extra feat making it easier to acquire, but I still believe R16 to be superior. Those extra 3 sneak dice give more damage as well as higher DC on blinding strike. Not to mention extra skill points from rogue. However, if (pre-epic) feats are important I just wanted to call out where SWs build has the slight advantage of 1 extra feat pre-epic. It should be noted that Fighter bonus feats won't really help you with epic feats though, so in this case you are giving up one epic feat (R16) in exchange for 2 pre-epic feats.

Here is one build I came up with and it is missing the important feat "Shield Specialization" until late Epics (27). Unfortunate to use an epic feat slot on a non-epic feat, but since you are getting an extra at R13 and 16 it's ok. Shield attacks can apply sneak damage (though I have not tested this, going by our Wiki) thus when you land a blinding strike, shield slam or otherwise have an enemy flanked you will get a total of 9 sneak attacks at 11d6 each (~38.5 each or ~346.5 total sneak damage in 1 round if all attacks land). DC of Shield Slam (with belt of growth) = 10 + 15 + 10 = 35 and DC of Blinding Strike is 10 + 11 + 6 + 3 = 30 which is good enough to be quite a effective against epic mobs. Both are fortitude saves unfortunately, but even Epic Frost Giant Warriors are going to fail ~35% of the time IIRC. Note you could drop Weapon Focus/Specialization and still be ok, if you want to pick up something else instead. Left skills blank other than pre-reqs for GFK since that would be up to you.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?292656

[aaron22]

with shield feats being a primary desire, i wonder if there is some sort of M@A split that could be used to get something he wants. the high will save and shield feats may compliment the rogue levels to achieve something nice here. i am not that familiar with either M@A or rogue play so its hard for me to know what is helpful vs what is needed.

a 20/10 split on this would give you 4 bonus feats from M@A and then crip strike for EP. but the SA dice is only 5. not sure this is worth it.

[Sun Wukong]

Man-At-Arms 14/Rogue 16 - or - Man-At-Arms 10/Blackguard 4/Rogue 16 could be interesting in my opinion. The Greater Heavy Armor Optimization gained at MaA 9 basically turns any Fullplate into a Mithral Fullplate. Hence, you could actually wear some Adamantium Fullplate for the 3/- Damage reduction it provides, or just about any Fullplate of different material. This means you can basically leave your base dexterity into the 8-10 region, and just use a +2 to +4 dexterity item to get most out of your armor. You can get some extra AC from the Shield Block ability.

Not to mention the bonus feats at levels 5 and 10 could be spent to unlock Shield Slam.

If you do not go for the Blackguard (EDM) path the Man-At-Arms abilities might not be much to write home about... and even with the Charisma investment you do not have extremely high DCs... But those are more like a cherry on top rather than anything else...

[DreadArtemis]

Chad that looks like a pretty fun build. I am curious why you pumped charisma though? Is it for the frightful attack? If so, the DC will be 22 without a charisma item correct? Is the frightful attack only performed when hidden or invisible? Is it a number of uses per day or cooldown. If it is pumped off of charisma, then perhaps an edm with blackguard thrown in the mix could be profitable. I would already have power attack from the prereqs for GFK, and I could get cleave from GFK too. That way I could end with a 24 charisma with item to increase dcs and well as nab some better saves! My Str will take a slight hit so lower shield slam dc but frightful would be much higher, on top of way better saves and EDM for when I need to stand toe to toe.

Might be tight, but 4 fighter/13 rogue/10gfk/3 blk might get me there. I will have to much around with it and see. My intention was going human, so I would get some extra skill points and that extra feat. Does improved knockdown also add to DC of shield slam? If so that would be nice!


And aaron, I would not be opposed to the MaA, although not too many levels in to ruin the sneak attack funsies.

[DreadArtemis]

I know the shield feats aren't Primo for most people, just thought it would be fun..I built the earlier one i talked about (Rog13/Ftr/4/Blk3/GFK10) with Edm and it seemedpretty interesting. It ended at BAB 26 the magic number with 10d6 sneak and epic precision. I was able to fit in all the fun stuff I wanted. I mean, I really dont need to invest in hide and move silent past prereqs and would free up plenty of skills for RP stuff as well as let me get 15 ranks in spellcraft and plenty in UMd( on top of decent charisma score) With no buffs i had +40 to hit. Is this decent enough endgame? Also, the blackguard aura synergized well with frightful attack and blinding strike. Cant test shield slam on JEGS doesnt seem to be working, but aura would work for that too. ending at 26 str including a belt of growth. Ac was decent in full plate. I could use a tower shield for +2 ac but my attack bonus will suffer. I know there is a negeative energy damage shield I could use that would fit what I was going for.
For additional defenses I suppose I could UMD some mirror image scrolls and other stuff. Saves werent crazy good, but definately better with the blackguard charisma bonus to them.

Men at arms would net me some will save improvements, and the challenge stuff and demoralizing stuff could be fun as well. Perhaps Rog13/MaA5/Blk3/GFK9 could be entertaining. Will be a challenge to fit all the goodies in there I will have to tinker.

[chad878262]

Personal opinion is M@A is less than optimum based on what is trying to be done. Agree with Sun Wukong if you are going for a split EDM/Flanking sneak attack build then it is an option, but still don't think it is the best option. While the optimization feats and shield block is nice to have, you get 3 feats from 4 levels of fighter which as shown in the build I posted is barely adequate for everything you are trying to get feat wise. 10 levels of M@A takes away from total sneak dice and only gives two bonus feats so you are getting some nice 'gravy' feats, but losing an important bonus feat selection.

I am curious why you pumped charisma though? Is it for the frightful attack? If so, the DC will be 22 without a charisma item correct?

You could certainly leave CHA at 11 to grab another point of STR or even just dump it to add points to CON as well. Even though the DC isn't going to be all that great for frightful attack it's still an ability and from an RP standpoint it makes sense. I suppose by adding to STR you are freeing up an epic feat to maybe take LoH at 1 and delay one of your pre-epic feats to epic for some extra AC/Saves. *shrug* I built it quick based on getting what I consider the most important features, but certainly there is room for improvement and/or customization based on what you want out of your character.

If it is pumped off of charisma, then perhaps an edm with blackguard thrown in the mix could be profitable. I would already have power attack from the prereqs for GFK, and I could get cleave from GFK too. That way I could end with a 24 charisma with item to increase dcs and well as nab some better saves! My Str will take a slight hit so lower shield slam dc but frightful would be much higher, on top of way better saves and EDM for when I need to stand toe to toe.

Feats are already tight... What are you going to give up? Yes you can drop STR to 21 and get CHA to 21 for 24/24 with +3 items, but you also have to spend a pre-epic feat on Divine Might and an Epic feat on EDM while losing the bonus feat at Rogue 16. You will be giving up some of your other feats to do this and you really don't have any to drop. You can drop Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization Pre-epic. This will give you room for Divine Might and Shield Specialization becomes a pre-epic feat. However, you lose one of your Epic Feats (R16) and you can't really afford to drop CHA since you are going EDM. You can move 3 level ups from STR to CHA and all the Great STR feats become Great CHA, but that only gets you to 20... So you will also have to give up Epic Prowess and Expose Weakness to grab a fourth Great CHA and EDM. With only a 40 AB Expose Weakness would be a real help... I think it's a situation where you will be better off foregoing EDM in favor of more sneak damage and higher STR with which to land more sneak attacks based on Shield Slam DC.

With the max STR build you will be perfectly fine going Tower Shield.

[DreadArtemis]

I agree the EDM makes stuff tight with it all added in. I built the blackguard fighter version and it seemed pretty nice.
I also made a rog13/MaA5/blk3/GFK9 and it seemed to function well. The EDM piled on some damage when needed ( especially against dR10 mobs). The MaA challenge was fun, free bonus damage. the Demoralize was ok I guess (dc25) probably too low though. although that couple with blackguard aura was nice to drops saves for the blinding strike, shield slam, and for the hit effect on weapon (level drain dc18).

decisions decisions. I like both builds. I wonder what other ones I could explore.

The big pull of blackguard was the EDM (obviously) and the bonus to saves. with the MaA build I actually had decent will saves, which is a welcome sight. I don't want to be a bad*** and drop to a silly spell.


I will try a few more, thanks so much to everyone for contributing. I didn't want to make a character with little options, so I figured some fighter roguish character with shield stuff would give me plenty of buttons to press.

[chad878262]

A possible middle ground for you would be R13/F4/GFK10/BG3 without going EDM. BG reduces saving throws making DCs a bit better on Shield Slam and Blinding Strike. Should be able to get enough levels of GFK for free Cleave so it doesn't cost you anything except for 1d6 sneak dice. I would still pump STR and leave CHA at ~9-14 rather than going for EDM, but if you like the EDM route go for it. My thought is simply that when you have 10+sneak dice your build should be focused on landing those sneak dice as often as possible. With Epic Precision when you are able to land shield slam you will get through the DR even against crit immunes thanks to 5d6 sneak dice still applying. However, by going for EDM you are reducing your DC on Shield slam due to STR 24 instead of STR 30 and you are hurting your attack bonus. In the end it's a bit like the STR Bard vs. EDM Bard discussion... STR Bard is better, but it's not by that much and becomes a matter of personal taste. If you like the look and feel of the EDM version better than that's what you should play. Otherwise you'll likely end up wishing you had.

A good general piece of advice by the way. Once you iron out the cost vs. benefit of various builds like this you don't necessarily take the 'best' so much as the one you most enjoy playing. Otherwise you may have a build that is mechanically superior (in many cases marginally so), but you'll likely abandon it because it's not as much fun for you to play.

[DreadArtemis]

Hey Chad I completely understand on the ironing out the build. I figured with a higher charisma I would have better saves and although strength would be lower I am hoping the aura and knight abilites help with the saves being lowered.

I have a few characters and really enjoy playing just about anything. The HiPS game is the only character so far I have had that wasn't fun. I wanted something competitive in PVE as well as have some good RP skills.

I tend to build some weird stuff and thought this would be a fun exercise in the weird stuff department. I will keep you updated when I finally decide what silly build to grace the realms with. Evil rogue warrior type with a penchant for poison, backstabbing, and guileless tactics is what I was going for, and many of these builds hit the nail on the head.
Thanks all in this thread for giving me too many ideas to play around with, now I will never decide!!

[chad878262]

case and point... I find my HiPS builds some of the most fun. In most cases (besides Invoker...) different players tend to have better skill playing different types of builds. While I can hold my own on casters, for example I'm rubbish in comparison to most other players that do this kind of thing. However, when it comes to HiPS focused builds (and I have played MANY) I tend to be able to more easily cover their weaknesses while empowering their strengths.

In your case HiPS was less fun, so I applaud you for not giving up on sneak attack based builds all together and trying a more unique path to landing them. Hope you have fun with it, regardless of the outcome!

[DreadArtemis]

through much testing (at least on JEGS) it would appear that shield bash does not trigger sneak attack damage.

Any idea if this is correct in the game? If it doesn't work in game that will make building my guy much easier.

[chad878262]

If I get up early enough I'll test in the morning.

[wurdpass]

I have seen it work IG less than 2 months ago!

[DreadArtemis]

I know that shield slam triggers sneak attack but specifically all the shield bashing attacks themselves getting sneak attack damage on them. I tested in JEGS multiple times and even when flanking all my main hand attacks get the sneak damage but the shield bashes never do. It says sneak attack but with 10d6 sneak on a non crit or sneak immune enemy it never shows extra damage. If that's the case I will keep the shield slamming but wont bother taking the extra feats to increase the number of attacks per round. I guess I can always wear the TWF gloves to get an extra attack if I really need more damage.
Thanks for checking it out Chad, let me know if JEGS is just wrong