RCR bot auto xfer equipment and gold

[samb123]

It makes perfect sense. Here's why. RCR's shouldn't be commonplace. In fact, frankly, I don't even think we should allow transfer of gear, period.

What is the rationale behind that position?

I think the rationale is already there:

RCR's shouldn't be commonplace.

[Hoihe]

It makes perfect sense. Here's why. RCR's shouldn't be commonplace. In fact, frankly, I don't even think we should allow transfer of gear, period.

What is the rationale behind that position?

I think the rationale is already there:

RCR's shouldn't be commonplace.

Since we're continuing down this line...

Considering how awfully set in ways a character in D20 systems already is..

And the rules "Play your character sheet"

In order for one to play their character sheet, they have 2 options:

1. Religiously adhere their RP to their character sheet.
2. Change the character sheet to fit the RP, within reason.

Normally, if the server was balanced thus, B could simply be picking a class/skill/feat every level that justifies things.

However, it is not so.

You need to meticulously plan your build from scratch months ahead of achieving a given level just so you stand a fighting chance - be it DM events in skill rolls (have maximum ranks in a skill or none, no middle way) or simply PvE.

But what if RP changes to show you towards another direction? You can either wind up literally useless and stuck to FAI/CR15 areas...

Or you can RCR whenever the projected path is going to take you off the rails, adjusting spread and feats, maybe even re-allocating 1 or 2 stat points elsewhere.

Remember - play your character sheet. And remember, according to some "elites", unless you have 12 charisma you are butt ugly and social awkward. We need to please the "elites" in their demands for character sheets - and that requires a miracle. And as they like to say, miracles require sacrifice. So RCRing we go!



p.s.: If we used FateCore rather than D20 this wouldn't be an issue. Would never have been.

[DiceyCZ]

Since we're continuing down this line...

Considering how awfully set in ways a character in D20 systems already is..

And the rules "Play your character sheet"

In order for one to play their character sheet, they have 2 options:

1. Religiously adhere their RP to their character sheet.
2. Change the character sheet to fit the RP, within reason.

Normally, if the server was balanced thus, B could simply be picking a class/skill/feat every level that justifies things.

However, it is not so.

You need to meticulously plan your build from scratch months ahead of achieving a given level just so you stand a fighting chance - be it DM events in skill rolls (have maximum ranks in a skill or none, no middle way) or simply PvE.

But what if RP changes to show you towards another direction? You can either wind up literally useless and stuck to FAI/CR15 areas...

Or you can RCR whenever the projected path is going to take you off the rails, adjusting spread and feats, maybe even re-allocating 1 or 2 stat points elsewhere.

Remember - play your character sheet. And remember, according to some "elites", unless you have 12 charisma you are butt ugly and social awkward. We need to please the "elites" in their demands for character sheets - and that requires a miracle. And as they like to say, miracles require sacrifice. So RCRing we go!



p.s.: If we used FateCore rather than D20 this wouldn't be an issue. Would never have been.

Exactly, RCR is much less used to transfer XP from old character who retired into a new character and much more used to "re-build" I think. Some of us are not 6+ years NWN2 veteran power builders who know every system by hand and even the available information can be sometimes ambiguous at best, or down right wrong and if you make a few mistakes in your build which only surface up at epic levels you are kinda screwed and pretty much left to be the one dying 5 times during a dungeon or event. And then there's the change of RP in your characters. Without RCR every character has to be unchanging, forever set in their ways (which is just not how people work) or short lived and at the moment you would need to change their RP but couldn't change their sheet to reflect you would pretty much have to scrap them.

Maybe some people have 12 alts and every character for them loses appeal as soon as it hits 30 in 5 weeks of intense grinding...but some of us have only a 2-3 characters, often not at the same time that are expected to be around for years. SO just because you don't need it, doesn't mean no one else does...

[metaquad4]

It makes perfect sense. Here's why. RCR's shouldn't be commonplace. In fact, frankly, I don't even think we should allow transfer of gear, period.

What is the rationale behind that position?

I think the rationale is already there:

RCR's shouldn't be commonplace.

That is your position. Not the reason behind your position. Aka the rationale.

To put it more simply for you, what makes you think that RCRs shouldn't be commonplace?

[chad878262]

Normally, if the server was balanced thus, B could simply be picking a class/skill/feat every level that justifies things.

However, it is not so.

You need to meticulously plan your build from scratch months ahead of achieving a given level just so you stand a fighting chance - be it DM events in skill rolls (have maximum ranks in a skill or none, no middle way) or simply PvE.

why not? I know of MULTIPLE builds that have 2-3 feats in Pre-Epic that are not required to make the build viable. Some might grant more power than others, but indicating that somehow the only way you can be viable is to make a cookie cutter powerbuild is going a bit overboard. As I have learned over the years it is far more about player skill than it is build. It's taken nearly four years, but I can finally handle a little more than half the epic content without dying ~80% of the time at the various bosses. This is with many similar or even same builds I have had for years. One as early as 6 months in to starting here. Everything from STR bard to wizard gish, to non-casting fighter, rogue, etc. In DM events I have utilized "RP skills" many times that were not maxed, or even half ranks with at least some success. There was even a discussion at one point about all the lore skills and how DC for common knowledge was like 5 or 10 and went up from there. I have used search many times in DM events over the years and have never felt 'penalized' for not having full ranks. I may not succeed 100% of the time, but often enough that ~15-20 points certainly doesn't feel wasted.

But what if RP changes to show you towards another direction? You can either wind up literally useless and stuck to FAI/CR15 areas...

Or you can RCR whenever the projected path is going to take you off the rails, adjusting spread and feats, maybe even re-allocating 1 or 2 stat points elsewhere.

Remember - play your character sheet. And remember, according to some "elites", unless you have 12 charisma you are butt ugly and social awkward. We need to please the "elites" in their demands for character sheets - and that requires a miracle. And as they like to say, miracles require sacrifice. So RCRing we go!

Doesn't it stand to reason if you are learning a brand new skill/feat at the expense of another that it will take some amount of time to re-train that new skill up? As to 'elites' and charisma specifically, there are different things to consider. Maybe you are good looking, but those horns are difficult to look past. Maybe your personality is abrasive. Charisma CAN mean appearance, but there is no rule that says it MUST be tied to it. Unless the DM Team comes out and puts a rule in saying otherwise, I would say such elites can simply be told to RP their character and allow you to do the same.


Obviously we are all shaped, at least to some extent based on our own experiences in game and who we interact with is a big part of that. I have found that avoiding some interactions is probably for the best OOC'ly for both parties, but otherwise I have to say it's exceedingly rare I've found any player that comes across as abrasive OOC'ly (IC'ly abrasiveness seems a common trait!)

[samb123]

Exactly, RCR is much less used to transfer XP from old character who retired into a new character and much more used to "re-build" I think.

That's exactly the problem, frankly. It is NOT a system that should be used for rebuilding.

[DiceyCZ]

Exactly, RCR is much less used to transfer XP from old character who retired into a new character and much more used to "re-build" I think.

That's exactly the problem, frankly. It is NOT a system that should be used for rebuilding.

And why exactly is that a problem? It doesn't hurt or inconvenience anyone around the player who's rebuilding and I think 50% xp drop is pretty fair price to pay for changing your training.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Because of the current state of the module I'm not against revising RCR. With things like the ILR disabled it isn't wholly out of the realm for a newcomer to hit level twenty with a few other players inside a week of dedicated gameplay. If the hindrance to RP comes in part of the play your sheet rule for people who don't want to revisit Xvarts I think something like six months of a character's existence is sufficient to become eligible for a complete recreation of that character without the penalty stature.

Maybe 6 months you're eligible for half the penalty, every twelve you're elegible for no penalty.


Maybe applied on a per cdkey basis.

[V'rass]

*Removed* (Just realized its not a nerf lol.)

[Hoihe]

Exactly, RCR is much less used to transfer XP from old character who retired into a new character and much more used to "re-build" I think.

That's exactly the problem, frankly. It is NOT a system that should be used for rebuilding.

Sure. Let me tell you of a world where RCR would never be needed.

We have no classes or levels in this world. We instead have races, backgrounds, bloodlines, birth-stats and aptitudes.

Race/bloodline/background may hard-block certain feats, skills or mechanic. No sorcery mechanics if you don't have the bloodline to support it!

You get a pool of freely distributed points afterwards. Say, arbitrarily, 250.

These points are basically "slots." Every post-character generation improvement costs both a slot/point and experience points. Experience points are infinite and are not scaled with mobs. Instead, every purchase is worth a given slot points.

We may either make it that you must mark a category that gets XP, or we can make it a general pool. Ideally, we would make it category based. Same actions contribute to all pools, but only 1 at the time. We may even make the amount of XP a given pool can hold be limited by the amount of slots spent on that pool - to prevent someone suddenly learning everything about magic without a build up and sacrifice.

Your aptitudes/race/bloodline affect the slot/point cost, your background affects XP cost.

Each base stat increase costs a pre-determined amount of points, increasing almost exponentially the more you increase the base stat. Perhaps make the cost a J curve - high upfront cost, then low cost that creeps higher than the initial.

Skills cost slots in tiers. Let's go with a J curve again, unlocking the 0-5 range is more expensive than the 5-10 range, but less expensive than the 25-33 range. You purchase the ranks themselves with XP.

Feats work simply, except we replaced classes with feats as well, them giving the player the mechanics that class previously provided. Perhaps make it a set of tiered feats, each new one requiring the previous. Let's go with the J curve again. But otherwise - you spend both slot AND xp to acquire a feat.


Now, what do we do if the character doesn't maintain their skills, or wants a change of pace? They may "forget" any investment that isn't considered the prerequisite for something else. This returns their slot points, but the XP is lost forever. However, since they were able to RP learning the new skills and invest XP into the appropriate pool, even if the pool at the time was limited, they can "quickly" learn the new skills, seamlessly transitioning from A to B both ICly and OOCly. Now that they learnt the new skills, they can invest more XP and so on.

Boom. No more RCRing. No more weird cases of the character sheet being months behind someone's RP.

No more weird multiclassing since everything is available to everyone*

*provided they have the right chargen stats for it.



In other words, let's take SWG's pre-cu character sheets and adjusted them in spirit of Dark Heresy's and D&D 3.5's.

So long as the above system isn't implemented, we WILL need RCRs, or we'll find ourselves breaking the golden rule of "Play your character sheet."

[chad878262]

I see tow primary issues with your idea Hoihe, but would like to call out that I do like the proposal (just not for this server).

1. This would not be D&D. This server is based in Forgotten Realms, a D&D based world. Any player that comes here, new or old with any knowledge of D&D expects a certain type of gameplay and character building. It would not be wise to have a completely custom built, non-D&D method of character creation and buildilng. Many players already complain about the amount of custom content, difficulty in finding the various documented changes, etc. Something like this would make it a completely unrecognizable system from D&D.

2. The amount of effort that would go in to not only completely removing the class system and implementing the various feats/skill system you propose is astronomical. Not even sure it can be done in NWN2 engine without the source code. Even if it could be done, after you finally did all the work to implement the system then you need to revamp the mobs, bosses, and items in their entirety to reflect this new system. By the time such a thing was done (if it's even possible) the game will likely be played by an even smaller community, if at all.

Not saying such a system wouldn't be fun to play in other words, but I can't see any way it would be the right system for this server.