Protection from Alignment change request

[izzul]

we need those spell duration timer bad! any chance it will be put in game?

with a button like F button and option to choose which would be displayed,which dispelled, and the size of it?

[Invoker]

Every fire-and-forget spell that gives a clear immunity (like Circle vs Alignment) needs a clear visual effect. For the player, for those around him and for the discerning DMs as well.

Moreover, encouraging perma-buffing any more than the ridiculous thing that it already is would make little sense. Spells are costly, economically and energetically speaking.

They aren't peanuts, nor should they be treated as such.

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

Every fire-and-forget spell that gives a clear immunity (like Circle vs Alignment) needs a clear visual effect. For the player, for those around him and for the discerning DMs as well.

Moreover, encouraging perma-buffing any more than the ridiculous thing that it already is would make little sense. Spells are costly, economically and energetically speaking.

They aren't peanuts, nor should they be treated as such.

This. If you want to be fully buffed and protected, be prepared to walk around looking like an idiot.

[Svabodnik]

I do admit that by cause of necessity, between real-time combat and hard-coded mechanical changes, NWN2 is further removed from D&D 3.5 balance-wise than is Pathfinder (or hell, even d20 Modern). Perhaps it is my own mistake that I still approach the setting of FRCS through the lens of the D&D counterpart. In my defense, I have spent many more years playing it table-top than I have across my playtimes of NWN1-2. That being said, in the pen-and-paper games that I've played, passive magic was rarely described as animu-tier flashy garbage (thanks Google).

If one has issues discerning what effects are active on themselves, you can use the Remove Effects button from PC TOOLS to see a snapshot list of them. As an avid user of consumables, I've relied on that plenty of times after a dispel to see if I needed to reapply something, since the list of removed effects tends to scroll by a bit fast in the combat log. If the buff in question runs out due to duration, it's fairly easy to tell since the icon pops up over your character's head.

On the matter of a player seeing what effects are active on others, I hail back to my opening statement. Most servers on NWN2 remove the CR difference from Examine results in order to avoid metagaming. If I remember correctly, in base NWN1 you could actually see the target's buff list in the examine - which was likewise removed on the servers that I've played for the same exact reason. Being able to determine what spells are active on a player, if lore-wise such effects are deemed invisible (outside the ability to view the workings of the Weave), may fall into the same category.

Surely, considering for how long NWN2 has been around, and the spell effects have been kept visible, the ability to access this metagame knowledge could be considered part of the 'meta' balance in the game. That being said, off the top of my head for immunity spells that don't have a lasting visual: Freedom of Movement (paralysis, snares), Energy Immunity (elemental damage), Death Ward (negative/ability damage, death effects), Lesser/regular Mind Blank (a Protection vs. that doesn't actually care if your foe is True Neutral). That doesn't even go into the notion that there are classes that provide several passive immunities, like Monk or Pale Master.

I agree that there should be a tool available for DMs to be able to discern what effects/immunities are active on characters. Playerside, if a newly-added Arcane Sight or reworked Detect Magic could fill the void, I'd be all the happier.

Ultimately, I'm coming at this mostly from the perspective of aesthetics. When I think "D&D dungeon delve", "a billards game of disco balls" isn't exactly the first image that comes to mind.

[Tekill]

I liked the old buff effect for protection from alignment better than the current one.
Being surrounded in a big bubble is indeed idiotic looking. But I don't think looking like an idiot should be the price for having lots of buffs.

[Tsidkenu]

We already have Know Protections (1st level, Div) and Analyse Dweomer (6th, Div, round/level duration). They both have will save to negate, making the first all but useless outside of PvE and the second rely on your magic using foe rolling a 1.

Most folks are just gunna meta the OnPerception vfx burst you get irregardless of persistent spell vfx, and this is the point at which players depart from IC and base all their decisions on meta - how does your character know not to cast Finger of Death at the pesky low-fort rogue because they used a death ward wand 1 hour ago? It isnt because you cast Know Protections or Analyse Dweomer, is it?

[Aspect of Sorrow]

It would be done through a pseudo feat, similarly to psionics.

[artemitavik]

Personally, while some of the VFX might do well with an update, just getting rid of them altogether I think is a bit of overkill.

This server is already super heavily magic-centered, suddenly having ALL magic users walking around with ALL buffs on ALL the time I think might get a bit too over the top.

[chad878262]

Just my opinion, but I have no issue with round/level spells having no VFX. I do have a concern already stated by many as to having hour/level, 10 min/level and min/level spells with no visual indicator. Realize this would also potentially apply to PvE (unless Chambobo's suggestion is used about it being some kind of pseudo-metamagic) and thus Casters would have no visual indication that a wizard is protected by some kind of magic. A bit unfair when the AI metagames the protections the player characters have/don't have.

While the bigger concern is likely PvP, I believe the more common issue would be in PvE, especially for new players that are trying to play a wizard and constantly casting spells that don't work due to not knowing what protections various PvE enemies/bosses have. Would basically have to start about every boss battle by throwing (Greater) Dispel, Breaches or Mords, just in case.

In the end, very few spells in PnP call out that there is no visual queue that the effect is in place. Unless a spell specifies that it can only be 'seen' with True Seeing or Detect Magic or something, there should be a visual queue.

[metaquad4]

I do admit that by cause of necessity, between real-time combat and hard-coded mechanical changes, NWN2 is further removed from D&D 3.5 balance-wise than is Pathfinder (or hell, even d20 Modern). Perhaps it is my own mistake that I still approach the setting of FRCS through the lens of the D&D counterpart. In my defense, I have spent many more years playing it table-top than I have across my playtimes of NWN1-2. That being said, in the pen-and-paper games that I've played, passive magic was rarely described as animu-tier flashy garbage (thanks Google).

Coincidentally, the one anime I watched that was based on a light novel that was based on D&D featured buffs that didn't have any visual effects except when activated in some cases.

Also, yeah. I am fairly certain no DM ever said to their player "and now you look like a Christmas Tree" after they finished buffing.

I'm all for (most) buffs not having a VFX. It causes less crashing, and it makes spells like Detect Magic, Analyze Dweomer, and the few like spells we have more useful. Win-win.

For those of you worried that people will walk around fully buffed 24/7, let me put your minds at ease (assuming you are willing to accept that you are wrong).
1) People can and do already.

2) It is easier to fight someone who has already fully buffed, both in PvP (which we don't base a lot of decisions around fyi so don't bank on PvP arguments holding up) and PvE. Mobs will dispel/breach you, and players can do the same.

3) There are enough invisible buffs, depending on your class, that you can do this while still staying relatively invisible. Druids and Clerics have the most invisible buffs (Druids can buff fully and still look cool, shell is their only visible buff), with wizards having the least (go figure the paper class).

4) Could just Ethereal/Invisible and buff at the start of a fight.

---
Here is a list of buffs that could stand to have no or a very tiny none-intrusive VFX:
(Improved) Mage Armor (Supposed to be invisible)
Shield (Supposed to be invisible)
Magic Vestment (Just supposed to add EB. Does EB armor get all shiny? No? Then neither does this.)
Protection vs Alignment (the small blue circle vfx was fine, maybe around the wrists instead of the waist?)
Shadow Shield (maybe a similar effect to Shades instead)

^^It isn't even a big list or anything. Everything else is either invisible already or fine how it is.

In the end, very few spells in PnP call out that there is no visual queue that the effect is in place. Unless a spell specifies that it can only be 'seen' with True Seeing or Detect Magic or something, there should be a visual queue.

All the spells on my list that I said should be invisible are spells that specify invisibility. With the exception of magic vestment, but if that isn't invisible then -all- armor with EB has to be all sparkly and stuff.

Everything else that is important and should have no obvious visual cue is already invisible. Look at that!

[Svabodnik]

[...]While the bigger concern is likely PvP, I believe the more common issue would be in PvE, especially for new players that are trying to play a wizard and constantly casting spells that don't work due to not knowing what protections various PvE enemies/bosses have.[...]

The only spells with a lasting visual effect that offer some form of immunity, that come to mind, would be Protection vs., Shadow Shield, and Shield (for Magic Missile alone). I've yet to come across any enemies that have such pre-applied (except maybe the ogre mage chieftain and his two golem buddies - not sure if it's actually a Protection spell or just a visual effect). From my experience, creatures with immunities simply have those immunities with no visual indicator at all, so the presence or absence of certain buff VFX would be a marginal impact on PvE.

[...]In the end, very few spells in PnP call out that there is no visual queue that the effect is in place. Unless a spell specifies that it can only be 'seen' with True Seeing or Detect Magic or something, there should be a visual queue.[...]

It is true that most persistent spells in pen-and-paper don't mention that they don't have a lasting visual effect. Likewise, they don't mention that they don't do a lot of things, like make the caster sneeze butterflies or develop an annoying rash. Such unmentioned side-effects from spellcasting tend to come from a Wild Magic zone, and amusingly, "harmless visual effect that remains for a spell's duration" is one potential side effect of a Wild Magic surge. To have this be specifically mentioned leads one to think such is not the norm.

Spells that do have a visible element (Entropic Shield, Shadow Mask, Mirror Image, etc.) tend to have it be noted. It is also worth saying that the ability to perceive magical auras falls under the purview of certain divination spells (i.e. Detect Magic, Arcane Sight, etc.). Such would be a strange element to have if one could simply peruse the size, color, and shape of a mage's/priest's personal fireworks display.

[electric mayhem]

You sit down in a chair. You power up a computer. You run NWN2.exe and eventually type info in to log ... into... a... game.

Characters are meant to look fanciful, intimidating. Enjoy the game.

[Hammer_Song]

You sit down in a chair. You power up a computer. You run NWN2.exe and eventually type info in to log ... into... a... game.

Characters are meant to look fanciful, intimidating. Enjoy the game.

Or just roll a dwarven monk and laugh at all the people wasting time buffing! Amiright EM?!?!

[artemitavik]

Personally, while some of the VFX might do well with an update, just getting rid of them altogether I think is a bit of overkill.

This server is already super heavily magic-centered, suddenly having ALL magic users walking around with ALL buffs on ALL the time I think might get a bit too over the top.

"Excuse me a moment, we can continue talking in a moment, I need to refresh my wards."

Heh, you laugh... this has totally happened, far more than once.