Ghost Sight (Phantom vs. Ghost-Faced Killer)

[metaquad4]

I will add the reason it riles me up a bit is because saying it's RPly True Seeing you're basically letting this class permanently godmode every player that utilises magical disguises for RP which I don't believe is the intention of the feat. At least classes like mages, clerics and druids will have periods when they do not have Detect Illusion/True Seeing active so disguised players still have a 'chance'.

Perma See Invisibility allows the full RP spectrum of the Ghost Sight feat (and I don't even know if there's a mechanical argument for True Seeing so phantoms can actually attack ethereal targets) without them getting a permanent godmode ability to ruin every disguise player's RP, including druids and mages who use wildshape/polymorph to disguise.

How would this practically work, anyway? It would require you to volunteer information (hah!) to a player you think has true seeing (opening yourself up for MGing). That or a person with true seeing cold-PMs everyone around them asking for information about magical disguises. Neither are overly realistic, at-least for the majority of the player-base.

Conditional Examine could cover this, but we don't have a "true seeing" conditional examine as of yet.

True Seeing doesn't allow you to attack Ethereal, never has. In source, you need to be Ethereal to attack Ethereal targets. NWN2 Ethereal works like a sanctuary effect, where they are immune to *direct* attacks.

[chad878262]

NWN2 Ethereal works like a sanctuary effect, where they are immune to *direct* attacks.

Anyone want to buy perfected alchemist fire?

[metaquad4]

NWN2 Ethereal works like a sanctuary effect, where they are immune to *direct* attacks.

Anyone want to buy perfected alchemist fire?

D: Anyone want to buy a druid? Mass Drown, Bombardment, Storm of Vengeance, and all your AoE needs all for the low low price of 5 team kills.

[Glowfire]

And again I find myself wanting that all Etherealness be renamed to various Sanctuary effects.


I always ask if anyone has True Seeing active as that seems fair, and they'll just send me a tell if so. If someone ends up casting it after that, well... it's just to screenshot and report. Never happened so far, not with disguised fiends etc.

[Invoker]

wow!

not sure then why people complained about phantom in the past.

It was quite bad.

Less skill points, no UMD as class skill, less build options, no rogue goodies (especially Epic Precision, and the only believable access to Epic Dodge being the 25/5 SD route)...a bit much to compensate with the combat advantages of Phantom, which come with charges, to boot.

Adding Crippling Strike to it was a colossal buff, and basically made the class truly viable.

This, said from someone who played Ninja extensively elsewhere, before discovering BGTSCC even existed.

[chad878262]

a bit much to compensate with the combat advantages of Phantom, which come with charges, to boot.

Yes, but while you have those charges, WHOLLY SMOKES!

While P25/SD5 is conventionally the 'top pick' to get epic dodge, metaquad has sold me on the overall superiority of P21/A9. The top area where Rogue types struggle is against spell casters (especially bosses/PvP). When needed, the Phantom with HiPS does not have that weakness because when HiPS is on cooldown they can use ghost step to break spell lock, making a competent player immune (while charges exist) to retaliation and especially to getting hit from a spell caster that spawns right after you attack or was otherwise missed. Being able to immediately go invisible/ethereal after attacking from HiPS is ridiculously good.

Now, Shadow Dancer version of course has this as well, but only has 13d6 sneak dice and has to spend the feat on epic dodge. P/A has 16d6 sneak dice and after PTWF, Epic Precision, Epic Prowess and Expose Weakness has an epic feat they can spend on something else, such as an extra sneak dice for example. This will equate to an average of ~56 more sneak damage in the first flurry which in the case of Frost Giant Mystics will likely be the difference between getting them to "Near Death" and killing them outright. Killing caster mobs in the first flurry means you don't have any need to utilize Ghost Step, saving those uses for later, such as against the Frost Giant King where you can essentially spam sneak attack, hips, sneak attack, ghost step until he's dead.

Phantom needs no help, it's very good as assassin or shadow dancer. It is not as good a dip class as Rogue, but then that was intended.

[electric mayhem]

I'm still not sure 'how' and 'why' the Wis AC feat is a boon to Phantom. Or why it's even there in the first place.
They don't benefit from Intuitive strike, so I doubt anyone will be stacking Wis into the class for AC purposes.
Therefore, starting off with 11/13 Wis at creation and chucking a +3 item on, nets you a total of +2/+3 AC through this feat. Awesome little bonus. But that's just it.
And from the RP point of view... I'm not sure the ninja/phantoms are the 'infinite wisdom' type of persona???
Is this a feat from a leftover era or different class design/makeup?

[Tsidkenu]

Shall I build a wis-based phantom just to prove you wrong EM?

[electric mayhem]

Shall I build a wis-based phantom just to prove you wrong EM?

Go ahead please do. I'll openly plead my ignorance around Wisdom inclusion in phantom build. Not ashamed to be wrong.

[chad878262]

Phantom / Assassin can go Zen Archer with enough DEX for Improved Rapid Shot/Manyshot...

[wurdpass]

I thought the biggest benefit was to pierce concealment. Wasn't that the whole point of the feat for the phantom and ghost stalkers?
To see spirits as they truly are?
i.e. They definitely don't need blind fight in their builds

So does the ability pierce displacement or not?

Assume it's the same for warlock witch sight?

Does Ghost Face or Phantom negate oppositions displacement or no?