Build Questions for "Stealthy Monk"

[Bobbydean]

Hawke - agreed. I think a combination of those 3 classes are the way to go. Trying to figure out the best level cutoffs to maximize my feat/skills in order to increase my solo viability.

Thanks again for the timely detailed posts!

[chad878262]

Monk20/SD5/R5 - to get enough skills to achieve the things you outlined along with Epic Dodge

Adding Rogue will resolve your desire to have disable device, but I think you will still be wanting in terms of skill points. Recommend you put it together in the builder so you get an idea of skill and feat distribution.

Must have feats:
Weapon Finesse
Dodge
Mobility

Consider:
Ki Step
Blinding Strike
Fiery Fist

Also recommend you consult the wiki and read up on any other feats you are considering. cheers.

M20/SD5/TA5 is a very solid defensive split that is pretty good fun, I never tested Thief Acrobat as it came out after I left QC iirc but it has some neat unique abilities. Understand though this build will have the same issue previously discussed with inability to disarm traps. M24/SD3/R3 does get more damage, but loses epic dodge (and has fewer skill points). Personally I would not lose out on epic dodge to go from 2-20 up to 3-24 damage.

[Bobbydean]

Monk20/SD5/R5 - to get enough skills to achieve the things you outlined along with Epic Dodge

Adding Rogue will resolve your desire to have disable device, but I think you will still be wanting in terms of skill points. Recommend you put it together in the builder so you get an idea of skill and feat distribution.

Must have feats:
Weapon Finesse
Dodge
Mobility

Consider:
Ki Step
Blinding Strike
Fiery Fist

Also recommend you consult the wiki and read up on any other feats you are considering. cheers.

M20/SD5/TA5 is a very solid defensive split that is pretty good fun, I never tested Thief Acrobat as it came out after I left QC iirc but it has some neat unique abilities. Understand though this build will have the same issue previously discussed with inability to disarm traps. M24/SD3/R3 does get more damage, but loses epic dodge (and has fewer skill points). Personally I would not lose out on epic dodge to go from 2-20 up to 3-24 damage.

Nice, thanks. Some of those consider feats seem custom. Any builder you recommend (maybe a mod) that would work? I tried JEGS builder but it was very buggy. Thanks to you and everyone for the quick responses, I think I have a good idea of where to go from here!

[chad878262]

I would start with http://nwn2db.com/

Obviously have to use stand ins for certain classes, skills and feats but I still always start here.

[Bobbydean]

OK, thanks. cheers

[cosmic ray]

M11/A9/R10 - Standard PTWF Kama Monk for BG. Get's 15 APR, 16 with Haste so when hasted actually gets a 6th sneak attack out of HiPS which is pretty huge since you have 10d6 sneak damage (average ~210 sneak damage in first flurry when hasted). This one generally misses out on epic dodge because your R10 feat needs to be crippling strike so you can grab Epic Precision. Quite a bit more offense than the M/SD build above, but at the expense of quite a bit of your defense. Still HiPS obviously solves a lot of defensive issues when used appropriately.

Would rogue 16/monk 3/assassin 8/bodyguard 3 be better or worse? No greater flurry but would have epic dodge.

[AC81]

I just saw this thread and thought I’d jump in as I’ve played on this server a lot (not much in the last year ) and have also played monks a lot (and RP’d with lots of different styles of monks).

If you want a stealthy monk, the absolute best is the M25/SD5. If you want 20+ levels of monk and hips then this is it, look no further. It’s a defensive powerhouse that is able to boost damage with fiery fist. Pick ki step as an offensive and defensive weapon. If played correctly this build should never die.

If you aren’t married to the monk 20 idea then you could try something like M11/As8/WS8/BodyGuard3.
Take willow strike, specialise in staves. Your flurries from stealth will force lots of saves. And if the victim fails, they’ll be dead. Can go str or dex based. Works okay with a wood elf, then you get keen senses. It’s something different, you’ll be a unique build, whereas most monk builds are reasonably common.

Monks are powerful, don’t worry about damage, you’ll hit a lot. I have a level 30 ‘pure’ monk and there’s only one beastie on the server he can’t kill. Have fun, they’re a great class, my favourite.

[qwertyh88]

One more tip on Monks -- outside of RP reason -- after taking 16 levels of Monk -- if planning more levels of Monk -- Go Monk of Long Death Progression for the extra benefits.

[Theodore01]

.......If played correctly this build should never die.

Sorry have to disagree. AC81 is too used to his über-gear.
Anyone else will probably die.

[Bobbydean]

Thanks for all the ideas. I was also wondering what people think of 13 Monk 5 SD 4 Fighter 10 Divine Champion. The saves and damage look amazing and also get Epic dodge, HIPS, and good stealth and spot skills. Thoughts?

[chad878262]

M11/A9/R10 - Standard PTWF Kama Monk for BG. Get's 15 APR, 16 with Haste so when hasted actually gets a 6th sneak attack out of HiPS which is pretty huge since you have 10d6 sneak damage (average ~210 sneak damage in first flurry when hasted). This one generally misses out on epic dodge because your R10 feat needs to be crippling strike so you can grab Epic Precision. Quite a bit more offense than the M/SD build above, but at the expense of quite a bit of your defense. Still HiPS obviously solves a lot of defensive issues when used appropriately.

Would rogue 16/monk 3/assassin 8/bodyguard 3 be better or worse? No greater flurry but would have epic dodge.

It's better at killing things, yes. However, as the original ask was 20+ monk levels I thought the build posted a better middle ground.

[chad878262]

Thanks for all the ideas. I was also wondering what people think of 13 Monk 5 SD 4 Fighter 10 Divine Champion. The saves and damage look amazing and also get Epic dodge, HIPS, and good stealth and spot skills. Thoughts?

Not sure what divine champion is doing for you here. The reason for divine champion is great wisdom feats, but the build you're aiming at would be either DeX or str focused.

[Arn]

I might consider Monk20/DC4/SD6. It gives 2 more BAB and 1 more feat than Monk25/SD5.

But Monk25/SD5 certainly has higher unarmed damage (3d8 instead of 2d10) and 1 more AC.

Edit: Also, just wanted to say that I agree with AC81. A good monk build is very survivable if you play it right. But for me, that means spamming heal kits and bringing Fortitude gear against insta-gib spells. I'm not sure how AC81 plays his monks. Pls let me know if I am missing anything!

[Bobbydean]

M11/A9/R10 - Standard PTWF Kama Monk for BG. Get's 15 APR, 16 with Haste so when hasted actually gets a 6th sneak attack out of HiPS which is pretty huge since you have 10d6 sneak damage (average ~210 sneak damage in first flurry when hasted). This one generally misses out on epic dodge because your R10 feat needs to be crippling strike so you can grab Epic Precision. Quite a bit more offense than the M/SD build above, but at the expense of quite a bit of your defense. Still HiPS obviously solves a lot of defensive issues when used appropriately.

Would rogue 16/monk 3/assassin 8/bodyguard 3 be better or worse? No greater flurry but would have epic dodge.

It's better at killing things, yes. However, as the original ask was 20+ monk levels I thought the build posted a better middle ground.

Forget the 20+ Monk requirement. You did a good job to convince me already with prior posts that I should forget about Monk 20+ for it's own sake and think about what I want as far as feats, combat abilities, stealth abilities. You also convinced me that I wouldn't be able to get all of the skills I want, so I figured that good tumble, hide, WS, listen, spot would be sufficient. So I guess I'm willing to stop monk at level 13 if it means some other classes help me kill things faster, allows for HIPS and Epic Dodge and nets me better saves. However if going Monk 25/SD 5 still gives me the best survivability, then I'll probably just go with that.

[qwertyh88]

13 Monk 5 SD 4 Fighter 10 Divine Champion
^ That build has no damage & it's not possible 32 lvls

Damage for a monk comes from either Sneak Damage or High Level Monk progression from your fists.
As I believe already mentioned earlier in the thread, you cannot have it all.

Chad has provided a pretty good middle of the ground build with your initial ask.

I am going to make an AC81 comment. (Which he supports with his comment that he has a lvl 30 "pure" monk that can kill everything except for 1 beastie than nobody can solo anyways)

The best monk & easiest Monk is a pure monk!
16Monk/14 MoLD. If Played right, you won't die & kill everything except for 1 beastie!
This build has 4 more AC than a 25Monk/5SD without wasting an epic feat and another non-epic mobility feat.
To me this is like EPIC dodge w/o spending a single feat on getting it.

The only benefit of SD is just HiPs which is okay because Monk's already have KI Step which makes HiPs less useful than for other builds.

Every other build is just a flavor build that don't perform as well as a 16Monk/14MoLD overall.