Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Oh, i did post those ACs so you can easily compare them without the need to check those pics i attached by the link. i totally understand how to calculate AC, i just didn't want you to go and do it yourself when i can invest 3 minutes in summing up what i get.

For cornugon, even though it has 10 more str points than planetar, he still has lower AB and lower damage. So why does it matter?

Frankly speaking, they are not useful in different situations, comparing two shapes that are just good anywhere anytime (cornugon/planetar). If you want to hit more often, you go for dryad. Every other shape are significally worse than those three and dryad is also bad comparing planetar/cornugon except for having 4 more AB and 19-20 x3 crit.

For mouther, having 1 additional full AB attack is not worth it when you don't have regen and your DR is just 4. Fighting 2-3 mobs at same time, you will lose way more than in planetar/cornugon shape. Goristo is only useful when you want to kill faster (Say, i myself use it to hunt trolls so i deal more damage, but that's not twice more damage, it's like 15% increase only). I still spend my time after few fights in other shape to simply regen my hp back.
Slaad is same as cornugon with lower stats and useless disease low-dc effect. 1d6 more dmg doesn't help considering lower AB and AC.

As of 1 shaper per pact, it's understandable. I myself still suggest having 2 shapes per alignment (at least for good/neutral/evil) representing armed/unarmed fighter.
I would also find having alignment restricted access to be a good thing. Say, evil can go evil/neutral, neutral can go neutral/1 shape from good/1 shape from evil, good can go good/neutral.

Summing up, while i feel that 2 out of 6 warlock shapes are just useless as any of other 4 are simply better in everything, i still want unarmed shape having access to gloves being merged, because armed shapes do already have more versatility and potential to add damage/effects, while unarmed shapes can't do that.
When i go into dryad shape, i grab my hellcat kama for 1 additional acid damage, 1 additional bludgeoning damage and dc 18 1d2 str damage.
So, my dryad does have 10 AB 4 EB keen spear with 1d4 magic, 1 acid and 1 bludgeoning damage with dc 18 1d2 str damage on each hit. My planetar can get keen vamp regen weapon (and i have that) so he goes for +4 EB keen longsword with 1d4 electic damage and vamp regen +1.
My cornugon/mouther/slaad do have their 2d6 or 3d6 + 7/10 and there is no way to improve it with items.

EasternCheesE wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:36 pm But warlocks do have few buffs, others come from UMD.
A warlock can have +4 dex, +2 ac, and dr 15 as self-buffing only, which is very few comparing arcane/divine caster buffs.

Dire Bear: +12 strength, +8 constitution, +2 dexterity, +7 natural armor, +2 Will saves and Fast Regen +4. All claw and bite attacks have +4 enchantment. 30 base AC.

This form, actually, gets more bonuses than whole warlock buffing can give. Warlock's unarmed shapes don't have +4 eb and they have no access to knockdown/charge etc.

Valid point relative to more bonuses... and yet, it's important to note those awesome Dire Bear attributes are only achieved for short periods while raging.

zhazz wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:28 pm Elemental bonuses from gloves/weapons do transfer for Bear Warrior.

They do not, however, transfer for druidic Shapeshifting or the wizard spell. The reason for this is a balance issue due to both those classes having powerful buffs. Buffs that the Bear Warrior doesn't have.

Thank you, Zhazz for the confirmation.

I still say it would be much better for variety and Player fun if the unarmed shapes were reduced in power to allow the Player the choice HOW to buff their attacks, just as the player is given when in Weapon wielding shapes.

Reduce the power in unarmed, gift variety to the Player. Let’s see some Christmas spirit folks!!!!

Steve wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:28 pm I still say it would be much better for variety and Player fun if the unarmed shapes were reduced in power to allow the Player the choice HOW to buff their attacks, just as the player is given when in Weapon wielding shapes.

Reduce the power in unarmed, gift variety to the Player. Let’s see some Christmas spirit folks!!!!

Unarmed shapes are already weaker than armed shapes (at least for warlock) and you propose to weaken them more? Sounds like "you were a bad boy, EC, here's your piece'o'coal". And as warlock, you don't have any special way to buff unarmed shape compared to armed shape in terms of UMD or self buffing. You will have same leaps and bounds, dark foresight, dark premonition and IMA/heroism/shield/spiderskin from UMD.

If you mean taking 4 AB and 4 dmg from them so they can get that back with +4 EB gloves/weapon merging, i think that can work for warlock. Cornugon shape solely can be a base of some build and using special items to make it on par with planetar shape is okay by me. Say, cornugon gets 4 ab and dmg nert but gets ability to have gloves/weapon transferred to shape, so cornugon shape would still be 1 AB lower than planetar (and 5 AB lower without +4 gloves), but then we could add those +4 AB 1d4 fire or whatever gloves/sword stuff.
While i still think warlock shapes should just get that "gloves/weapon give bonuses" to be on par with armed shapes, having some nerf before allowing it sounds as a pretty fair compromise. It will nerf cornugon shape if on doesn't have +4 weapon or +4 gloves, but it will make it possible to have special properties on cornugon's attack.

EasternCheesE wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:18 pm Unarmed shapes are already weaker than armed shapes...

If you mean taking 4 AB and 4 dmg from them so they can get that back with +4 EB gloves/weapon merging, ...

Staff said unarmed shapes, namely the Cornugon, is balanced with weapon wielding shapes because it innately has greater STR.

But yes, what I'm proposing is the latter in your last post, that gloves/bracers transfer to the Cornugon, but innnate strengths are lowered to compensate.

Weapon wielding shapes have much variety added to them because of the weapon enchantments transference. Having that with unarmed Shapes makes it all the more interesting for the Player.

While cornugon has more STR, he still has lower damage output and lower AB than planetar. So comparing by raw STR score is wrong.