Hierophant WIS requirement

[mrm3ntalist]

I think before the change, if you were a cleric, you took Hierophant. There was no good reason not to take it, it was just mechanically the best option. I think the story and RP of the PRC kind of took a hit from this. So while it may seem like it's "limiting" builds it's actually reducing pressure to feel forced to taking this PRC, thus increasing choice?

Can we increase the DEX requirement of Rogue to 19? Or move evasion to 11?

[Blackman D]

rogue is a base class... and SD already got that treatment

and evasion is now armor restricted, no real point on moving it

[YYA]

I think before the change, if you were a cleric, you took Hierophant. There was no good reason not to take it, it was just mechanically the best option. I think the story and RP of the PRC kind of took a hit from this. So while it may seem like it's "limiting" builds it's actually reducing pressure to feel forced to taking this PRC, thus increasing choice?

Can we increase the DEX requirement of Rogue to 19? Or move evasion to 11?

Now, from lore perspective, there is actually no reason to impose a wisdom based limitation. For example, a high strength and moderate wisdom Cleric/War Priest/Weapon Master of Tempus/Garagos makes far more sense than what most people would initially think. A very similar argument could be even made for a character with that Fighter/Weapon Master/Frenzied Berserker/Shadowdancer build -- you just need to come up with a story that explains the classes; for example a Wild Child who amidst his weapon training would always attempt to sneak away to pick fights and make trouble around the town. It makes perfect sense. But just because a role-playing excuse can be made, it doesn't mean that everyone with that class combination will have one. If the server considers it to be an issue, probably as some form of a detriment towards the role-playing quality, there are only ever two solutions to it. The first is that you make a particular class application only, which means that some aspect of the server administration has to read through countless applications and decide who gets to play what. It is one way to ensure role-playing quality, sure -- but at the same time, if two people file in the same application, one of them might get rejected simply because whoever gets to make that decision dislikes the username of one the applicants. The second is that you impose mechanical limitations, such as the 19 dexterity for a Shadowdancer, and apparently 19 wisdom for a Hierophant. It is not a perfect solution because it will force people to choose races based on applicable racial ability score bonuses, but once the requirement is in place, players will just have build characters with the limitation in mind and the server administration can mostly put aside the whole can of worms that arises when attempting to micromanage each and every character on a server.

Oh, and from the perspective of any future addition to the divine spell casters, it is probably easier to convince the server administration that PRC X doesn't upset the server 'balance' because the lost caster levels cannot be acquired through Hierophant, at least not without going for 19 wisdom. Thus even if you go for an Aasimar or something to get 18 or 19 in wisdom at character creation, it will automatically mean lower strength, constitution, dexterity, intelligence, or charisma -- whichever is the most applicable -- for the best build for this PRC X.

So, yeah, the exact same arguments could be used to reason that Rogue needs to have at least 19 dexterity, since it is often taken for three levels just to gain access to UMD, Evasion, Tumble, et cetera. The only argument against would be that it is a base class, it is nothing exceptional, it is just bread and butter -- and what kind of adventurer wouldn't have some 'roguish' tendencies as either a prelude or as a result of adventuring activities?

But anyhow, if such have to be added, I would suggest adding them accordingly:

Code: Select all

Character
Class    Str    Dex    Con   Int   Wis   Cha
Fighter  9      --     --    --    --    --
Paladin  12     --     9     --    13    17
Ranger   13     13     14    --    14    --
Mage     --     --     --    9     --    --
Cleric   --     --     --    --    9     --
Druid    --     --     --    --    12    15
Rogue    --     9      --    --    --    --
Bard     --     12     --    13    --    15

AD&D shall rise again!