How useful is the shapechange spell?

[DaloLorn]

I'll run some more tests this afternoon.

[mrm3ntalist]

The problem spontaneous casters have compared to wizards, clerics etc is the following:
- When wizards get a bonus on the casting stat, or a bonus spell from item they get bonus spells right away. So if you give them an extra bonus before polymorph they get the extra slots right away and that compensates any spell loss when polymorphing.

- When sorcerers get a bonus stat or a bonus spell slot item, they dont get the bonus until they have rested. So any bonus given before polymorph cannot compensate for the spell loss.

I think if we all gather around and pray to valefort, he might get something going It has been tried for many years though and no one was able to come with a solution.

[DaloLorn]

Considering AoS's stated preference for pushing the engine to its limits, and the fact that engine-pushing is needed to figure this out... you may be praying to the wrong deity.

[mrm3ntalist]

To be honest, praying never fixed anything for me. But I could pay whoever can fix this.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Code: Select all

servercore:nwscreature 
005f7820 CNWSCreaturePolymorph
005f8570 CNWSCreatureQAEHPAVCGameEffect UnPolymorph

0065f1a0 CNWSEffectListHandler PAVCGameEffect OnApplyPolymorph

servercore:nwscreaturestats
0059d0a0 CNWSCreature QAEXW4ATTRIBUTE SetPrePolymorphedAttribute

[mrm3ntalist]

Code: Select all

servercore:nwscreature 
005f7820 CNWSCreaturePolymorph
005f8570 CNWSCreatureQAEHPAVCGameEffect UnPolymorph

0065f1a0 CNWSEffectListHandler PAVCGameEffect OnApplyPolymorph

If that works, i will send you $200 (paypal)

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Appreciated but no need. Someone needs to just write the nwnx hook should be able to go from there.

[Steve]

If this works, it would be awesome. Really appreciated.

[whatever123]

Thanks everyone for the comments, very good info! Also thx for the video mrm3ntalist, it gave me a pretty good idea how it is at higher levels. Certainly gonna pick that spell and maybe one or two feats for it too for fun. Nice song by the way

[DaloLorn]

Okay, so:

• CHA adjustment on a human works perfectly, regardless of where your CHA item is. A CHA weapon will still merge without slot loss.
• Spell slot properties merge into the polyspellfix item even for spontaneous casters. This is bad. Instead of losing those slots once, you're losing them twice. (Shali had a Shukenja Helm and a Ring of Sorcerous Power, and she lost four level 3 slots in one transformation! That's almost half the spells she could cast in that circle!)
• With or without CHA items, CHA adjustment on a drow causes loss of spell slots. As reported in the OP of the thread Steve linked, your CHA briefly ticks up by +2, increasing your maximum spell slots, then ticks down when the transformation is complete, decreasing your maximum and active spell slots. This actually happens in both directions, but for some reason, the spell loss is asymmetrical.
  
  If a CHA item is equipped, you lose spell slots when shifting into your new form. If no CHA item is equipped, you lose them when shifting back out of it. Insufficient data exists to explain the asymmetry at this time.

My tiefling sorceress has not been able to source a polymorphing item (or her first Shifter level) yet, so information on -CHA races is limited. Extrapolating from the +CHA tests says there's going to be trouble there too.

[Steve]

I was playing an Aasimar Sorcerer that used the Polymorph spell, and NO bonus spell items.

With a +3 CHA item, I would experience a loss of Castings of Known spells, when returning to Original Form.

When casting Eagles Splendor before Polymorphing, then returning to the Original Form, I’d WOULD NOT see a loss of Castings (as was stated by Ariella).

However, if while in a Polymorph form—the spell—my PCs Eagle Slendor would run out its duration, I would see again loss of Castings.

Obviously, as Ariella pointed out, having a +4 Item would be the way to go.

[DaloLorn]

I was playing an Aasimar Sorcerer that used the Polymorph spell, and NO bonus spell items.

With a +3 CHA item, I would experience a loss of Castings of Known spells, when returning to Original Form.

When casting Eagles Splendor before Polymorphing, then returning to the Original Form, I’d WOULD NOT see a loss of Castings (as was stated by Ariella).

However, if while in a Polymorph form—the spell—my PCs Eagle Slendor would run out its duration, I would see again loss of Castings.

Obviously, as Ariella pointed out, having a +4 Item would be the way to go.

I don't see why Eagle's Splendor would have a positive effect here, since the +2 CHA boost was in addition to the +3 from Ilhara's CHA ring, which means it would also have stacked with a +4 item/spell. The fix for racial ability scores seems like a good one if you're dealing with prepared casters, but spontaneous casters... I honestly don't see how they can be dealt with without hooking into the code that governs the removal of their spell slots.

[Anchor]

This also applies to shamans and wisdom since theyre spontaneous?

[Rhifox]

This also applies to shamans and wisdom since theyre spontaneous?

Yes.

[YYA]

But since the Druidic Spell list has that one spell called Owl's Insight, which gives that +12 Wisdom... You might not even notice it.