BGTSCC's RP Environment - A Discussion

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KOPOJIbPAKOB
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Re: BGTSCC's RP Environment - A Discussion

Unread post by KOPOJIbPAKOB »

gedweyignasia wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:20 am This video take a position I agree with about the difference between a game and a story. Games are meant to be fair and skill-based. Stories have unfair, disproportionate consequences that can hurt a character who's done everything right. I think there's been a big push towards making things treat our players fairly, and it's had the unintended consequence of making stories less likely to develop.

There's less excitement in the world of BG right now, and people are being encouraged to treat it like a game instead. I would like to see things go in the other direction by a very large amount. Impose unfair consequences (good and bad, but much more bad than we've had in the past few years), make this about characters' stories instead of grinding a game.

We need more adverse events in characters' (not players) lives.


Skip to the relevant portion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdqhHKjepiE&t=354s
^
The most refreshing thought in the thread.

Aside from that, there's one thing I see as a fundamental issue of this server, it's how polarized this community is. There's way too many unspoken grudges and old wounds between various people and groups that just trace over through years. The fundamentality of this problem lies in complete impossibility to speak about them. Try to namedrop somebody you hold grudge on, and the thread will get locked in no time.

Now don't get me wrong, such thing can get out of control — or look like it's getting out of control. It's a big question how to properly approach it, but it needs to be done sooner or later. Old grudges will never disappear if you pretend they don't exist. If DM team sweeps player concerns or conflicts under the rug, hoping players would move on, well... Players won't. The grudges would only get worse.
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Re: BGTSCC's RP Environment - A Discussion

Unread post by Snarfy »

Without going on a huge rant, I feel like a few things need to be pointed out... and this is not to attribute the seeming decline of roleplay to these things alone, because some of the points raised(IE trust) are quite valid. But, whatever litany of issues/gripes/reasons we can conjure to explain this funk we're experiencing, I think it's only fair to ourselves, and our fellow players, that we remain keenly aware of some of the larger symptoms at play.

While, historically speaking, this time of year tends to be quiet, with the fall/winter months typically seeing an increase in activity, we are all coming off of a year and a half worth of the real world being a complete and utter c-word shit show. If there's anything I've learned about playing here, and I say this based off my own experiences as well, it is that unhappy players(or, more significantly, human beings) make for unhappy BG times. This not me trying to speak for any/all of us, mind you, I mean... sure, maybe some players have remained peachy keen since the covidian fuster-cluck began, but it doesn't take a rocket-surgeon with a PHD in psychology to realize the profound mental, emotional, and possibly physical tolls that the last year and a half has taken on literally everyone, which includes all of us.

Maybe we should just cut ourselves and each other some slack, take a deep breath, and ride it out. With any luck, cooler heads, forgiveness, and trust will prevail, and people can get back to some sense of normalcy and/or enjoyment on their own terms.
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Re: BGTSCC's RP Environment - A Discussion

Unread post by Rain »

Small two cents:

1. The Underdark cannot function in a PG 13 setting. Alot of what the underdark is, is simply not PG 13 at all. Nothing about it can be suppressed into putting a fictional lock and key on actions and terminology that do not fit the current ->servers<- guidelines given to it. Imo if you want the UD to be a place where people feel captivated by the setting of the Underdark your not going to get it with the current PG 13 rules you have in place that disallow 80% of the RP that would be a normality down there.

2. Cliques. Cliques. Cliques... I'm not going to touch much on the subject as ive already read the multiple chapter-books worth of words above this statement that already do. But it's a sure fire reason why the server is slowly becoming a "I'll just log in when a DM event happeneds." type of server. Something that is not directly fixable per say but... Most cliques have made or have taken over staple guilds that, for the majority have all the direction and all the backing of the DM team. And from my own experience the DM team will not interact with you as a solo player if you want to make something happen. Thus those people who just want to play solo cannot (IF! They wanted to impact the server in a meaningful way RP wise.) So in short... DMs... I know this will likely come up to the amount of staff that is present but, look out for those people who want to have fun in the server but not have to be FORCED to join a clique or a guild to do so.

3. Conflict RP: Probably something most people on this thread will not agree with but... this kind of thing was touched on by a few people above. Alot of people are scared to actually RP their characters in a axis vs ally mentality EVEN WHEN IT'S 100% JUSTIFIED TO DO SO, because people are scared that if conflict occurs 1 of many things will happen... 1. Conflict occurs and the infamous green text of negativityruins the vibe, 2. The DM won't support the conflict in any meaningful way even if it made complete since for it to happen because of reason #1^, 3. You'll lose credibility and take on the mantle of being called a "pvp monger" or a "power-builder" for simply winning or losing the exchange even when the pvp was not initiated by you and the reason for it made complete sense.

On the flip side though i'm one the players that believes ->IC<- conflict is the main backbone of what keeps the server exciting when the DM's are on a hiatus or are simply not present for long amounts of time and the server starts to get boring / stale. People love it when they can log on and "feel" like their endanger without having to push the player SCRY button and scout out for a DM to be online. It's that sense of dread and worry of knowing anything could happen at any time and their enemies and nemesis's could be lying in wait.

Ive had plenty of great conflict experiences with many players and those conflicts are what inspired me to log onto my toons and participate in plotting and scheming against my enemies in fun and interactive ways outside of PVP and knowing their doing the same against me. THIS^ however will likely not change or become something that is acceptable anytime soon due to the current state of the server, but for what it's worth I can say that it was the reason I logged in and stayed logged in when finding a DM online + them conducting an event -> I could participate in <- was as extremely rare.
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Re: BGTSCC's RP Environment - A Discussion

Unread post by Tekill »

Since the early days of the original Neverwinter Nights game, released 2002, there has always been a struggle between the overly aggressive and the overly passive aggressive players on various servers. They will play off each other to cause the drama that we all know and hate. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle and will occasionally get caught up in the drama. But there are always going to be very specific people that will be OOCly too aggressive or too passive aggressive.

The pvp murder hobos used to cause a lot of obvious grief using their power builds to bully other folk. This got the most attention over the years, and a lot has been done on many servers to stop it.

But not a lot has been done to focus on addressing the passive aggressive tendencies of the community. Someone playing the victim so that they can try manipulate and control a situation. Taking things OOC, to get an upper hand coaxing people into giving in when they otherwise would not IC. A gossiper is another example- Someone insecure that manipulates situations to give themselves a sense or order.

It is understandable, as it is way easier to spot a murder hobo, than a manipulator. It is unfortunate though, because as a result, it is now the norm to repress a lot of the freedoms we no longer have today, that we used to take for granted years ago.

Now the situation is that, we are all limited on what we can do. No pvp, limited conflict RP, smothered evil RP, and issues preventing a strong supportive Guild/faction network. We can't have nice things.

Discord though, has really brought the passive aggressive side of the argument to the light for us all to see. We all clearly see the toxicity and cliquishness that was always there, but now is much harder to ignore. Nothing has actually changed since 2002, it is just more exposed now.

Its the same way in real life; I can not punch you in the face for offending me, but I can totally try and cancel you.

I want to be in this game and be a part of a guild that I can support and that will support me in planning clever schemes (both good and evil). But I just cant. Guilds implode out of frustration or burn out or so do I. We are all too repressed now!

Ideally speaking, we don't even need the DMs' (not that they are not great). Some of my best memories of this game do not involve DM events. And I have never reported an aggressive or passive aggressive player for any reason to my recollection. Its petty. I get upset, sure, but then I take a deep breath and remember that none if it is real!!

We could have so much fun if we could all just drop our arrogance, pride and willful ignorance. Until we do we will just keep becoming more and more repressed, until all we can do is stand around having tea parties.

-Stop encouraging or enabling passive aggressive behavior when you see it. Make them keep it IC.
-Loosen up, take the stick out of your bum. We are not trying trying to win an academy award out there. We all do it differently. Take one for the team once in a while and and let that annoying player do their thing. It wont hurt!
-If your feelings get hurt ask yourself- would your character have hurt feelings?! No! They would pull out their sword/wand/mace/dagger/staff and seek justice!

The other thing is that I think the server would work better if we focused a lot more on faction RP. I know a lot of you prefer RPing as an Individual. But the beauty is you can still often better RP an individual, as part of team..ironically. I just think things could be better organized all around in an attempt to create RP opportunities if we were all members of active well populated Factions/Guilds. There are so many options for such guilds, how can there not be one catered to your players tastes. I just think there should be a lot of support, time and energy invested in supporting factions.

That is it. 8-)
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Zmeck
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Re: BGTSCC's RP Environment - A Discussion

Unread post by Zmeck »

I rarely ever post anything on forums and I am very hesitant to even post this time. I don't like forums.

I'm not a neuro typical. I have add and ocd. I have trouble quite often sitting by a fire or whatever and just typing things to strangers.
I really like numbers. As in I have favorite numbers that I like to think of. Because of that I really like making up characters, as there are lots of numbers involved. So I have a lot of characters. I get bored with one and start another. I sometimes have intricate backgrounds for them, other times just something generic. Normally if I want to be creative I write in a book I am slowly making.

All that being said I have had some decent roleplay on the server. Had a few characters that I actually hung out with on multiple occasions.

For me I am afraid to do dm events as people have hated me in real life and some seem to hate me here. (Hopefully with a reason, although I have no idea what it might be as they just seem to report me and never talk to me about it). I've had a guy that I worked with tell me that everyone hates me. I'm not saying this to get sympathy, I really don't need it or want it. Just reality for me.

It would be nice if people could keep the real world out of this game. As in, I don't care what you are in rl. If you are gay, black, white, green, whatever, to me you are a human and all should be treated with kindness and respect with no labels. If you want to rp that your toon is a certain way, go for it.

Also I think it would help my own rp if some realistic things took place to make the server not seem so much like a game and a bit more real. Outhouses, there are a few areas that have something to this effect, but very few. Are people using the streets in BG?
The need for actual sleep and food. This one I personally wouldn't like, but it would make the characters more real. I know some servers where you have to have food on you in order to rest. That would be decent, especially if something crafted gave a small bonus. Perhaps +1 to skills or something depending on how rare ingredients are. No idea how hard any of this is to impliment.

I had been avoiding people for quite some time on the server. I am beginning to rp more and feel a little bit more comfortable with it. If I have offended someone in the past, hopefully you will forgive me. I tend to go off on things sometimes. Not much here about improvements, just how I feel about the server. Hopefully it helps in some small way.
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Re: BGTSCC's RP Environment - A Discussion

Unread post by gedweyignasia »

Zmeck wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:50 pm I really like numbers.
You should explore Ulcaster Ruins, south of Beregost. (Don't let anyone spoil it for you!)
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Re: BGTSCC's RP Environment - A Discussion

Unread post by AgentOrange »

Anrilor wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:05 pm RP Environment

This has been the primary reason for my taking a break from the server. It stems from many areas of frustrations that have built up sense around march of this year. Most of it is OOC grief, not that I personally get that much, but that I hear all sides of any interaction that went poorly, I ask the questions of what happened, and I make my own informed judgement to the best of my ability. I do my best to have it not influence my IC interactions. OOC stays OOC, IC stays IC to the best of my abilities. This however is a dying thing. I've seen and heard complaints of people trying to stop RP with OOC tells going "No no, you are not hearing my character. what they really mean is Y." "Ugh, I can't believe X showed up to this event, I can't stand them, I'm gonna bounce." and the player logs. There are some grudges here that go back half as long as the server has existed. This only gets fixed with Planehopper's mentality, that as a community, we need to do better, and look in the mirror and wonder if the grudge we have made against the other player is really worth holding onto.

Then there are the Eccentric Characters and while I do not have anything against characters with quirks, unique personalities, etc. Of late there seems to be an influx of the 'Crazy, over the top, how have you survived to adulthood, can't function in normal society' type characters. And often when these characters run into each other, or in a DM event, their sole existence is to be loud, potentially dangerous to those around them, high level of insanity and must be more insane then the person next to them and 5x more obnoxious, just to make sure the DM sees you and has to interact with you, however, if you move to ICly excise them because of their dangers or behaviors, you are yelled at OOCly for Exclusionary RP, and the DM gets complaints filed against them for 'favoritism.'

Which leads me to my last point of the state of our RP Environment, Consequences, Apperently everyone not only wants their cake, but the chocolate malt, a banana split, and a large pale of cookie dough, and eat that every day without ever worrying about gaining a pound. "I'm a former dreadlord, and sense I said former you have no reason to be mean to me, or deny me access to the good guy secret conversations as this character IC, cause I totally quit and did nothing in the intermediary to show a change of heart. If you are mean or disrespectful in any way ICly, I take OOC offense to that, and will constantly correct you through emotes, tells, and complaints to staff until you change your RP and stop being mean to me." "I have a half a dozen throw away characters, but DMs should still include me in prolonged plots because to do otherwise is exclusionary, if I choose to throw out a character that is a key plot point in x plot, that's the DMs problem, not mine, he should know that going in." In short, "I'm not wrong, you can't hold me to account for past actions/affiliations, and you are the one that needs to change." is just avoidance and excuses for consequences. You want to be the evil, big bad, monster like character that rules over a faction known for despotism, authoritarianism, and murder, worships evil gods and sacrifices slaves on the weekly? ok fine, but don't expect to be able to show up and have a light conversation with a paladin. In our setting, Good has an aura, Evil has an Aura, they are tangible things, not this meta-psychological debate over what is and is not allowed in society and wither or not society is wrong. As such there needs to be tangible consequences to you deciding to play a certain character. But it seems that people are either willfully ignoring it, or hate when such things are played out and take OOC offence to IC reactions to other IC actions taken.

If you act as an outcast to society ICly, expect to be treated as such, and if you are, don't take OOC offense to people avoiding and shaming your character ICly. you chose to play a certain character, that character comes with certain consequences, and those consequences get played out ICly.

Character vs Build

Adjacent to to RP Environment, is how characters are made, and they are generally made with 2 sets of thought processes. "What sort of character do I want to play, and what sort of build would suit it?" and then "What sort of build do I want to play, and what sort of character would that produce?" While neither are intrinsically at fault the Character first method tends to produces well rounded characters, as thought into their personality comes first and then builds later, these characters usually go through an RCR process over time and tend to last a bit longer due to the interest being in the Character then the Build. The second tends to produce a strong character, but the personality is weak, and this used to be rectified with the Bio Reviews. These characters however, tend to be throw aways, as once the player is bored with the build, they dispose of them for the next build and the character falls to the wayside.

As the reward for submitting a lore appropriate bio was give 1k of exp, meaning you got to level 2 right away (non ECL). And this would help new players to the FR work to learn their lore, and work with a DM to understand how their character could fit into the setting. Once we got rid of the reward, less people put work into it, because there was nothing to be 'gained' and 'gamed' for themselves. This in my opinion weakened the new arrivals chances to learn about the setting, and as a result fell further and further from FR lore. This resulted in, over time, either generic characters with near 0 personality, until they hit 30 and had nothing better to do then RP at the fire, but had no real backstory to fall on, because they only focused on a build and are only now looking at developing the character, or highly Eccentric characters that have no true reason to be in the setting, other then to be loud, obnoxious, and troll like annoying, because that's what the Player has fun doing. Few and far between are the setting true characters, that have a background, a purpose, and fit into the setting. Now yes, the Bio application and review process requires the players to put forth effort into learning the setting, and a DM to ensure it is in line with the setting and assisting the player on their research to help bring them in line and understand the setting enough they can RP a new bright eyed wanderer.

Now these Bios were never 'required' but because there was a reward for doing so, there was a 'game' to it. And that game required a DM that was extremely knowledgeable in pre ToT lore, that was willing to put in time in reviewing these bios submitted, and a player that was willing to accept criticisms and adjust their bio as needed to have a character background suitable to the setting. Without the System to be 'Gamed,' people took advantage of it and slowly over time stopped caring about the character behind the build, wither or not it was lore appropriate, setting appropriate, or in some cases, even rule appropriate. It was something that helped keep continuity with the setting. Now it feels like the only conversations that happen are build conversations, there is no talk of character concepts outside of "What classes and feats do I need to take to be able to do X content." As a result, the RP, and setting adherence has slowly withered away. This has in turn slowly eroded the RP environment.

Which is unfortunate, because Forgotten Realms lore is rich, with many prebuilt in conflicts, all ripe for the picking. But then we handicapped a conflict through player actions with the trade treaty, A lords Allience member trading with the Zhents. And then the cries of 'its too hard to play evil' became a common cry, why? because if you did half the evil actions you wanted to, that was lore appropriate, you would be in violation of the treaty and break the progress of one player. Tieflings are Devil/demon spawn, and yet we treat the horns and tails as familiar as goats and cats. And if you show an inclination of racism towards them, you get stared at like you are the crazy one. Now there are characters that have earned the right of that level of respect, through their work and deeds. But for the most part any fiendblood are accepted as readily as any human. Now while I am not saying racism is good, for our setting, it exists, and in a strong fashion, and can be a point of character growth by both sides.

So how to fix all this?

Community Guidance

What I believe is lacking is a sort of Mission Statement of what this community is. We advertise a RP community built in the FR setting of Baulder's gate, and the nearby sword coast and part of the western heartlands, in the pre ToT 2.0 lore (that is about to head into ToT next year). This Mission statement would come from the admins, and be considered in every judgement of the Rules, how the rules are formed, goals and objectives of the Dev Team, what to expect from the HDM and DMs, what the Moderators do, and what players can expect and are expected to do, to join our community. As it stands, as far as I am aware, there is no such mission statement to unify around. It sort of feels that our point of pride "we allow all types of RPers" is really just a hope to meet at a place of the lowest common denominator to keep our numbers high and give a perception of a certain level of activity, however, some decisions that have been made have slowly destroyed even that base common denominator because you advertise one thing, but the community is acting in another, and in general it can leave players confused as to what is expected of the community and what the community expects of them.

Ideally the Mission statement would read something like this:
BG:TSCC Mission Statement

We are a NWN2 Role Play community, based in Forgotten Realms 2.0 Lore that is heading into the Time of Troubles story arcs. Our setting is that of a PG-13 Baulder's Gate, the Sword Coast, and west into the Western Heartlands. We have several NPC factions that Players may join through RP, including temples, the Radiant Heart, the Everwatch Knights, and the Zhentarium. However we also allow players to create their own factions through guild play, and can create their own guild houses. While allowing players to advance to level 30, we aim to provide a medium magic world with adjustments to spells, limited crafting, and a max power level of spells.

Admin Duites and Responsibilities
They set the overarching goal of the community, and help guide the DMs, Devs, and players to create a cohesive RP community. They are the shepherds of the community and have authority of final word on any matter and it can be considered settled should they deem it necessary to the health of the community.

HDM and DM Duties and Responsibilities
The HDM is responsible for the overall story and narration of events on the server. They facilitate the arching storylines and help provide assistance to DMs in terms of guidance and recommendations for stories. They ensure the community stays within the bounds of the setting, while still allowing player agency. DMs take their lead from the HDM, and assist players in events, running them, and answering any questions about the setting in general. During times of rule breaking DMs may step in and moderate the situation as needed. During these times players are expected to take the DMs statements as fact, and any issue with it can be brought up on the forums with the HDM or Admins as needed.

Developer Duties and Responsibilities
Devs make and create the world around us through area building, scripting, and modeling of outfits, faces, hairstyles, etc. They create the play space we all share and interact with. Anything that may affect story, narration, or balancing, needs to be brought before the DMs before being brought live to ensure it is both Lore and setting appropriate.

Moderator Duties and Responsibilities.
Moderators are in charge of keeping the forums and Discord chats clear of disrespectful arguments and comments, keeping the community clean and within the PG-13 setting. They can rule on temporary bans of these places, and make suggestions of what players need to be removed for the health and welfare of the community.

Player Duties and Responsibilities
Players need to know the rules, abide by them, respect their fellow community members, and enjoy the world before them. Be as inclusive or exclusive as your character would dictate and help bring the world alive though believable lore and setting appropriate characters.
The Idea of the Mission statement is to have a brief summery of what is expected of each member of the community and what role they fall into/volunteer for. Ideally DMs would only be in charge of Stories and Lore, however given the DM client also has Moderator abilities in game, that has to fall on their shoulders while we can assign moderators to the forums and Discord. The other option would be to Give Moderators a DM client access, but only for moderation purposes so the DMs can focus on story telling as their primary and only report moderation acts to the Moderators for further disciplinary actions. That would be my one change if I could, to ease the burden and responsibilities of the DMs to have to play IG moderator and story teller.

Ultimately the Mission Statement for our community needs to answer a few things

What is this community about? RP? PvE? PvP? PvPvE? Builds? Ability to Solo? Need to Party?
What is expected of each member of the community?
What is the direction and goals of the community?

Lastly there is something that needs to be addressed and answered by the community and agreed upon.

What are the Expectations between DMs and Players?

For me, I have expected DMs to tell stories, and aid players through NPCs and narration. If there is a story heavy element that I wish to tell, or an event to hold, and I can use my own magic/placables to do it, I try not to get a DM involved. Its not that I don't want to have DMs participate, but if I can do the job as a player with my character, and tell a story and involve many people, I would rather do that. When the stories I want to tell require NPCs or some sort of action, that is when I will reach out to the DMs. When I need or want to interact with players, I seek them out. when I want to interact with the world, Outside of what is already provided, I seek out the DMs. That's the general philosophy I maintain as my expectation between myself as a player, and the DMs.

If you managed to get this far, bless your heart, you made it to the end.
The word "consequences" is thrown around way too much in this game.

It's a game. Fun supercedes consequences.
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Re: BGTSCC's RP Environment - A Discussion

Unread post by Bobthehero »

Consequences schmuckenses, at some point it sure seems like OOC beef, with one side having the much bigger part of the pie.
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Re: BGTSCC's RP Environment - A Discussion

Unread post by gedweyignasia »

AgentOrange wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:51 am The word "consequences" is thrown around way too much in this game.

It's a game. Fun supercedes consequences.
Should it be a game or a story, though? In a game, you want your character to do well. In a story, you want a compelling narrative. Some of the best RP I've had is when I had a character of mine permakilled who was in the middle of a plot. It meant that the other player's actions had a real impact in the world; they changed something. It was "consequences" for my character, who had (through their own fault in almost every case) their story ended prematurely, but it was "making a meaningful impact in the world" for other characters.

I'm not saying that everyone needs to open their characters up to permadeath or that anyone who doesn't is standing in the way of RP. What I'm trying to say is that a setback for your character--who is trying to accomplish something--creates as meaningful a change in the world as a step forward. Don't let, "I'm mad because this story never got to happen" be the way you see things. Look at it as, "The path of this world has been changed by my character's failure."

It's hard not to root for your character at some times, since you're the person who's responsible for their agency and is pushing them to work towards their ends, but it's important not to project too much or conflict (which is the heart of every story) can leave you bitter.
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Re: BGTSCC's RP Environment - A Discussion

Unread post by Steve »

First, I want to thank Rhifox for making this topic, and for caring, about BGTSCC and the experience it gives players.

Second, and this won’t help me any, but until the DMs and all they purvey—rules and roleplay—returns to being inclusive rather that exclusive, the Server will continue down this MMO path.

Message to Admins and DM Team: bring players in, not keep them out. When you uphold exclusivity, apartness and secrets, you literally inject that into the entire Server environment. And thus you have all the problems that players have stated so far, in this thread, and hundreds of times before (or are not stated; players just quit).

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Re: BGTSCC's RP Environment - A Discussion

Unread post by yyj »

The thing that I think kills RP is people trying to be the center of everything, I dislike being around people that just want things to be about them and thats what sometimes makes me just log off and go do something else. It's boring and nobody really cares about it. Being entitled about things also drives others away.

RP elitism and OOC drama are also things that just keep people away. An attitude of thinking one is better than others or that certain RP is bad RP just makes things worse and does nothing to increase the quality of rp.

General negativity and just trying to start campaigns against others is wrong.


Just try to have fun and roleplay keeping things IC always.
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Re: BGTSCC's RP Environment - A Discussion

Unread post by AgentOrange »

gedweyignasia wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:23 am
AgentOrange wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:51 am The word "consequences" is thrown around way too much in this game.

It's a game. Fun supercedes consequences.
Should it be a game or a story, though? In a game, you want your character to do well. In a story, you want a compelling narrative. Some of the best RP I've had is when I had a character of mine permakilled who was in the middle of a plot. It meant that the other player's actions had a real impact in the world; they changed something. It was "consequences" for my character, who had (through their own fault in almost every case) their story ended prematurely, but it was "making a meaningful impact in the world" for other characters.

I'm not saying that everyone needs to open their characters up to permadeath or that anyone who doesn't is standing in the way of RP. What I'm trying to say is that a setback for your character--who is trying to accomplish something--creates as meaningful a change in the world as a step forward. Don't let, "I'm mad because this story never got to happen" be the way you see things. Look at it as, "The path of this world has been changed by my character's failure."

It's hard not to root for your character at some times, since you're the person who's responsible for their agency and is pushing them to work towards their ends, but it's important not to project too much or conflict (which is the heart of every story) can leave you bitter.
Game and story aren't mutually exclusive.

BG does not feel like an MMO. It feels like Second Life or The Sims Online if there was such a thing. That's what happens when there's a failure to make plots overarching or involved enough. Players fall back on social RP. Eventually they take a long break, or leave, because too much social RP is boring.

That's what happens when DMs only include small groups of people.

That's what happened to the North and UD.

DMs: Stop focusing on the same tired, old city,-centric groups over and over.
.:Marietta Thairo:. Former Dreadlord. Hell on heels. Retired with her family somewhere.
Freedom will not bring a better tomorrow.
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AgentOrange
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Re: BGTSCC's RP Environment - A Discussion

Unread post by AgentOrange »

Bobthehero wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:10 am Consequences schmuckenses, at some point it sure seems like OOC beef, with one side having the much bigger part of the pie.
Right? My fun, and yours at this point, is far more important to me than anyone else's beef, or need to impose "consequences". Imagine needing to put other players in their places like that in a game.
Last edited by AgentOrange on Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:46 am, edited 3 times in total.
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DaloLorn
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Re: BGTSCC's RP Environment - A Discussion

Unread post by DaloLorn »

Whether it's an MMO or Second Life depends greatly on when and who you're playing.

Most of my characters lately have been a lot closer to the MMO side of things, since they don't have as much XP, equipment, or gold as old veterans like Marietta, and therefore need to keep venturing out to get such.
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AgentOrange
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Re: BGTSCC's RP Environment - A Discussion

Unread post by AgentOrange »

DaloLorn wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:44 am Whether it's an MMO or Second Life depends greatly on when and who you're playing.

Most of my characters lately have been a lot closer to the MMO side of things, since they don't have as much XP, equipment, or gold as old veterans like Marietta, and therefore need to keep venturing out to get such.
Well, that's always been the case for sub-30 characters, the need to level.
.:Marietta Thairo:. Former Dreadlord. Hell on heels. Retired with her family somewhere.
Freedom will not bring a better tomorrow.
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