Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Steve wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:20 amOne doesn’t make CHA on a Bard gish because Bard DC spells aren’t good.

And if you are making a DC bard, you will probably want to invest in Conjuration, and use your buffed up summons boosted by Inspire Courage and Legionnaire's March (Bard 18), and you will Probably want to grab Stormsinger as well for that Storm of Vengeance,

DaloLorn wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:00 am I think I'd like to hear more about why the class is strong or weak or whatever it is. Hoihe's post implies that if the class is at all viable, it is only possible by violating the core concepts of its RP. Which principles are those, and how does violating them make bladesingers playable?

Here is an example of a non-min/max'd bladesinger (not bard version). https://nwn2db.com/build/?317435

If players can't use this build to completely trivialise almost every encounter in this PW (including bosses) then they are doing something very wrong. The build above can be made much stronger btw.

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Edit: Never mind. Looks like it was a temporary issue.

Okay, yeah, that's pretty solid stuff. However, I don't think we have an Armored Caster equivalent for Bladesingers here. You're going to be wearing light armor, and One Weapon will give you +1 Dodge AC.

Additionally: You lose 5 AC, because Bladesong Style is "lesser of half class level and half INT modifier" here. Furthermore, Song of Fury isn't implemented on BG, and Song of Celerity isn't two daily castings of Haste, it's casting an offensive spell on your sword to be applied on your next hit. You also do not get Mobility or Spring Attack as bonus feats, though I suspect this doesn't hurt much.

DaloLorn wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:12 amAdditionally: You lose 5 AC, because Bladesong Style is "lesser of half class level and half INT modifier" here. Furthermore, Song of Fury isn't implemented on BG, and Song of Celerity isn't two daily castings of Haste, it's casting an offensive spell on your sword to be applied on your next hit. You also do not get Mobility or Spring Attack as bonus feats, though I suspect this doesn't hurt much.

10 (Base)
+ 1 (Luck of Heroes)
+ 6 (MIthral Chain Mail)
+ 4 (Dexterity with Cat's Grace spell)
+ 3 (Tumble)
+ 5 (Bladesinger AC)
+ 6 (Improved Mage Armor from spells)
+ 5 (Natural Armor from one of the spells)
+ 4 (Deflection Item)
+ 4 (Dodge Boots)
+ 4 (Shield Enchantment from Shield Spell)
= 52 (53 if you factor in the Dodge Feat, and 56 when you further factor in Combat Expertise.)

And yeah, there are people who will look at the Wizard 10/Eldritch Knight 10/Bladesinger 10 builds and say there are utter rubbish, and I suppose the primary reason for that is that they try to play these Bladesingers in the exact same way as they would with an EDM Favoured Soul or something, buff up, and go at it. Thus, they look at the damage per hit, AB, lack of constant regeneration, and just conclude that the build is inferior, if not utter rubbish, after trying it out with a spell book entirely wasted on default buffs instead of adjusting it to match the area. You can make the enemy fight in a manner that makes it take constant damage from spells like Cloudkill, Acid Fog, Fire Wall, etc. You can also cast Bladeweave on your weapon, and that DC is boosted by your high intelligence, which means that there is a good chance that the enemy will not even fight against you the moment it fails a save. Not to mention that to really get the most out of the arcane spellbook, you have to throw different DC spells at the enemies in order to learn their weaknesses... Which is what makes the Bladesinger pretty good PRC for just about any dedicated DC caster, and it is simply because it grants the spellcaster sufficient AC that affords great surviability when coupled with Mirror Images, Displacement, and DR.

So, yeah, I agree with AC81, if you cannot use the build to dominate almost every corner of the server, the chances are you are doing something very wrong. But that said, people desire different types of gameplay, and sometimes some PRCs are just ill-suited to some of these purposes.

Bladesingers already get a lot of AC, especially sorcerers when multiclassing with Dragon Disciple - around 60AC. Sorcerers by design make better and easier to play gishes because of innate spellcasting. STR builds can kill every boss on the server, without specialized equipment because of spells/buffs and can tank the white dragon.
They do not need more AC at all and this PRC can create extremely powerful builds.