Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Hey, if you all want to give my Paladin-divinate 60 minutes of +5 ability and AC bonus, be my guest.

Just gives me more time to hunt Tieflings.

Edit: A compromise could be to fire the +5 bonus only if a sorcerer of draconic bloodline fires it?

I've no preference here, though if a paladin has chosen Draconic Heritage instead of Luck of Heroes as their level 1 feat, the perceived "imbalance" of allowing the +5 bonuses to stand has worked itself out.

renshouj wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2025 7:50 am

Ithrinael wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2025 5:52 am There are two versions of the spell in the literature. The variant in draconomicon is arguably more powerful, however both only have a natural armor of +4!

draconomicon:

+5 Str/Con/Cha (enhancement), +4 natural armor (enhancement), immunity to sleep and paralysis. Sorcerers +1 CL, 1 min per level. Funnily enough there is a material component listed in the header, but not explained in the description.

spell compendium:

+4 Str/Con/Cha/Natural AC (enhancement), immunity to sleep and paralysis, Sorcerers +1 CL, 1 min per level

Both fire for both paladins (level 4) and wizards/sorcerers level 5.

Edit: A compromise could be to fire the +5 bonus only if a sorcerer of draconic bloodline fires it?

personally really like all of this, and if the spell is touched it should be in this manner

I would probably prefer this is we go this route.

RedLancer wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2025 7:56 pm

Edit: A compromise could be to fire the +5 bonus only if a sorcerer of draconic bloodline fires it?

I've no preference here, though if a paladin has chosen Draconic Heritage instead of Luck of Heroes as their level 1 feat, the perceived "imbalance" of allowing the +5 bonuses to stand has worked itself out.

Mmm, a human could take both.

Goat wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2025 2:23 am

renshouj wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2025 7:50 am

Ithrinael wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2025 5:52 am There are two versions of the spell in the literature. The variant in draconomicon is arguably more powerful, however both only have a natural armor of +4!

draconomicon:

+5 Str/Con/Cha (enhancement), +4 natural armor (enhancement), immunity to sleep and paralysis. Sorcerers +1 CL, 1 min per level. Funnily enough there is a material component listed in the header, but not explained in the description.

spell compendium:

+4 Str/Con/Cha/Natural AC (enhancement), immunity to sleep and paralysis, Sorcerers +1 CL, 1 min per level

Both fire for both paladins (level 4) and wizards/sorcerers level 5.

Edit: A compromise could be to fire the +5 bonus only if a sorcerer of draconic bloodline fires it?

personally really like all of this, and if the spell is touched it should be in this manner

I would probably prefer this is we go this route.

There's two "this routes" in the post you quoted. Of the two, I definitely favor the Spell Compendium.

DaloLorn wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2025 6:29 am There's two "this routes" in the post you quoted. Of the two, I definitely favor the Spell Compendium.

Only one, the spell compendium for everyone but give +5s stats to ppl with draconic ancestry. I like the sound of it a lot - granted, idk much about balance and if that would break anything.

renshouj wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2025 7:14 am

DaloLorn wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2025 6:29 am There's two "this routes" in the post you quoted. Of the two, I definitely favor the Spell Compendium.

Only one, the spell compendium for everyone but give +5s stats to ppl with draconic ancestry. I like the sound of it a lot - granted, idk much about balance and if that would break anything.

No, Ithrinael's post listed two different PnP sources and a homebrew proposal.

Draconomicon gave +5 STR/CON/CHA, +4 Natural, and sleep/paralysis immunities to everyone, at 1 min/level and with a +1 CL bonus to sorcerers. This is mostly an upgrade over BG stats: 10x duration, no need for Draconic Heritage, -1 Natural (which is largely meaningless anyway). (Incidentally, it's not "arguably" more powerful: It is unambiguously more powerful, though you need to plan your ability scores to get the maximum benefit. No aspect of the Draconomicon statblock is in any way inferior to the Spell Compendium statblock.)

Spell Compendium went with +4 STR/CON/CHA and was otherwise identical to Draconomicon. This would be my preferred choice.

Ithrinael went on to propose a homebrewed "compromise" where the spell worked as in Spell Compendium, but upgraded to all +5s if you had Draconic Heritage. The net effect of this is also a straight buff: The spell would work exactly as it did today, but with the decupled duration first requested in the OP.

The mere fact of having a single minute/level spell convey +4s to three ability scores already makes the Spell Compendium statblock powerful enough to become a staple choice of paladins, sorcerous (and to an extent wizardly) gishes, and thanks to elixirs, various builds reliant on those ability scores such as MaAs, non-paladin EDMers, and the like. Letting such a spell grant a +5 bonus is simply too much.

As an example: