Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Thanks for the feedback.

Bios will remain a requirement.

I know that this is unlikely to have an effect at this stage, but I just wanted to say that I'm completely opposed to player housing as an idea. It segregates an already segregated and quickly dwindling playerbase even further and kills spontaneity as the only reliable way to run into other players ever since the old maps were readded has been to scry snipe them. This is another step in what has been a very wrong direction for the server for quite a while imo.

Are bios sent to DM's back in ancient times (2009-2010ish) still around, or should it be assumed that a new one would need to be submitted in order to qualify?

DaloLorn wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:35 am

Steve wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:23 am A bio posted and/ or proof of player investment, is quite the minor requirement for such a gift as player housing possibilities.

Thank you Staffies for making this a part of the player experience on BGTSCC.

I think you'll find that all of the people who have complained about it so far (in this thread, at least) have complained about the limited implementation of said proof, not about the underlying principle. I agree with the principle; I just think the implementation is arbitrarily specific, and that there are plenty of characters who have had significant impacts on the game world without ever writing up a bio sufficient to become eligible for a house.

More comically, some of those characters (like all of mine) belong to players who have previously made other, less impactful characters eligible for that house. An even smaller subset of those characters (again, including all of mine ) belongs to players who have made tangible, lasting contributions to the server well beyond writing one forum bio.

In a sane system, either one of those factors should be sufficient for eligibility. Neither of them are.

Mind you, I don't have much of a horse in this race either way:

• Of all my characters, Ilhara was probably the most likely to want a house to unambiguously call her own, and she was perfectly willing to use her guild hall for this purpose. (That never really worked out, because Eilistraeen guilds seem to have longevity issues, and can't manage four consecutive months of play... but that does also mean she's getting too shelved to need a house, so it evens out.)
• Most of the others either weren't the householding types, or could easily have been said to have homes off-server. They just use inns and camps on-server, and use "I'm going home" as an excuse to get shelved.
• It's not like I'm actively playing anymore, considering I've emigrated to Ravenloft again due to my growing inability to find/create any RP in my timeslots.

As such, I'm mostly just adding my voice to the conversation to help anyone else who might be in my shoes... and as a preemptive measure in case I eventually wander back to BG again.

These are basically my thoughts on the matter, yes.

The Whistler wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:42 am I know that this is unlikely to have an effect at this stage, but I just wanted to say that I'm completely opposed to player housing as an idea. It segregates an already segregated and quickly dwindling playerbase even further and kills spontaneity as the only reliable way to run into other players ever since the old maps were readded has been to scry snipe them. This is another step in what has been a very wrong direction for the server for quite a while imo.

I know this is a feedback topic and not a discussion one, but I can't help but disagree with this view. While I understand what you mean regarding losing spontaneity, player housing is an amazing tool for playerside generated RP and just in general more player customization. One can make their house into a little cafe, or a bookstore, or anything like that, which is pretty damn fun! (though I doubt many of those will be made).

The server is trying to step to a more RP heavy scenario, at least from changes I've seen and what was in the roadmap for this year, and to me the amazing customization that player housing brings is a step in the right direction.

Edit: Besides, I can't fully see just HOW player housing furthers the specific problem of not running into players, in my mind it would be actually easier, since you know where their damn house is!

DaloLorn wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:25 am

Hoihe wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:23 amPretty much all that's needed is a public record of "this character exists, and has been a thing continously for a while."

What content you use to prove that is, from what I understand, is irrelevant.

You could just post a bio describing physical appearance, then post songs every now and then as "current mood".

That has been my stance on it since the beginning, but PH has been quite insistent that it absolutely has to be bios. Posting links to RP posts related to the character is a no-go, with the exception of the compromise he's attempting now.

Planehopper wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:54 am

KOPOJIbPAKOB wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:09 am I still think the bio requirement makes no sense. The spirit of it is proving the character exists for more than 4 months - it can be done through other means. For example, I have a character who was active for more than 4 months, and I was making forum posts that reflected his activity. Yet he has no bio, as I just never post those, so I must write a bio and wait 4 months after it's published. That's absurd.

Harsh.

But not at all untrue.

What I meant is "Post a biography/journal with character name and super basic details but keep backstory/alignment/deity/class private, then fill it up with character theme music"

MasterSilke wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:52 am Are bios sent to DM's back in ancient times (2009-2010ish) still around, or should it be assumed that a new one would need to be submitted in order to qualify?

I would guess so, yes, but shoot a PM to verify.

renshouj wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:19 am

The Whistler wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:42 am I know that this is unlikely to have an effect at this stage, but I just wanted to say that I'm completely opposed to player housing as an idea. It segregates an already segregated and quickly dwindling playerbase even further and kills spontaneity as the only reliable way to run into other players ever since the old maps were readded has been to scry snipe them. This is another step in what has been a very wrong direction for the server for quite a while imo.

I know this is a feedback topic and not a discussion one, but I can't help but disagree with this view. While I understand what you mean regarding losing spontaneity, player housing is an amazing tool for playerside generated RP and just in general more player customization. One can make their house into a little cafe, or a bookstore, or anything like that, which is pretty damn fun! (though I doubt many of those will be made).

The server is trying to step to a more RP heavy scenario, at least from changes I've seen and what was in the roadmap for this year, and to me the amazing customization that player housing brings is a step in the right direction.

Edit: Besides, I can't fully see just HOW player housing furthers the specific problem of not running into players, in my mind it would be actually easier, since you know where their damn house is!

It still spreads out the player base over more areas in a way. You know where ten peoples' houses are, and they're all at home but in individual private spaces instead of congregating in a single social space. Maybe you only know two, and they're each hosting a guest or two themselves, but that's still a divide of a sort. Increased area count will often directly correlate to reduced social density. Not necessarily always, but often.

Sometimes it evens out as people concentrate in certain areas and just leave others entirely barren. There's a sweet spot and only wizards can figure out where it is.

renshouj wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:19 am

The Whistler wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:42 am I know that this is unlikely to have an effect at this stage, but I just wanted to say that I'm completely opposed to player housing as an idea. It segregates an already segregated and quickly dwindling playerbase even further and kills spontaneity as the only reliable way to run into other players ever since the old maps were readded has been to scry snipe them. This is another step in what has been a very wrong direction for the server for quite a while imo.

I know this is a feedback topic and not a discussion one, but I can't help but disagree with this view. While I understand what you mean regarding losing spontaneity, player housing is an amazing tool for playerside generated RP and just in general more player customization. One can make their house into a little cafe, or a bookstore, or anything like that, which is pretty damn fun! (though I doubt many of those will be made).

The server is trying to step to a more RP heavy scenario, at least from changes I've seen and what was in the roadmap for this year, and to me the amazing customization that player housing brings is a step in the right direction.

Edit: Besides, I can't fully see just HOW player housing furthers the specific problem of not running into players, in my mind it would be actually easier, since you know where their damn house is!

To be fair, we know where guildhall bars are and don't occupy most of those. The novelty will probably wear off at some point and be left with unused space while everyone gathers at the same hubs. It's not a problem with the way that housing is proposed but that is a decade plus of player behavior.

Aspect of Sorrow wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:47 am The novelty will probably wear off at some point and be left with unused space while everyone gathers at the same hubs.

Yep, that sounds about right.

To be totally honest, this sounds like it's a lot of work, then there's the server resources that will be used, and for what? So players can shut themselves away more, play with furniture and ... uhh, then what? I honestly don't get it, it seems very 'Second Life' to me, but hey, if players are into this sort of thing then they are welcome to it.

Well, at least we know a few of you won't be using it, right? That's fewer areas to worry about folks spreading out into.

Feel free to provide feedback, but to be clear this isn't a new system. This is a revision of an existing system after previous feedback from players stating that it was too expensive, to restrictive in size and location, and not functional enough. This place is never short on opinions, but the ones I am looking for here are on functionality and cost.

Thanks!

I'm cynical of it but was convinced enough to give it a whirl rather early on, screenshots of it are around with some preliminary height work, having started prodding into opportunities about what the house I was working on could be, not just for myself but for those that investigate the interior, putting pieces together about a history of one of my characters that they may not be aware of.

Aha! here's the feedback thingy! I couldn't find it when I posted my suggestion topic. sorry about that.

But anyway, yes, I feel that if someone can prove activity in game, forum activity shouldn't be a requirement, but that's me.

Planehopper wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:49 pm

Eligibility:

• Players may only own one house (That's per player not character)

Since it is one per player, will this allow couples / married characters to own one house each, provided they're in different areas?
I get that this will technically allow one player to own two houses, but at the same time the total number of houses remain the same. Avoiding excessive number of houses for one player seem to the spirit of the rule.

Planehopper wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:49 pm

Locations, Sizes, and Cost:

• Cost for settlement housing is a base 300k + 25k per tile used.

What is considered a settlement in this context?
Settlement usually implies a village of collection of buildings near a frontier. What's the context here? Does Baldur's Gate count as a settlement? Does Beregost?

Planehopper wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:49 pm

General Rules:

• Players must provide their own area for a house (see below)

While I understand the reasoning behind this, I hope that the content creators will provide some "stock" interiors as not to lock out players, whom are wholly unable to create something in the building tool. Otherwise it's going to be a small elite of players that can get a house.

Planehopper wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:49 pm

Process:

• Player sends PM to Developer distro with link to already-built map (.erf file required), screenshot of door/house to use in respective city, and link to qualifying character bio.

I'm not sure what this means to be honest. Do we need to add the extrerior building to an existing area to show placement and orientation? Or is it limited to already in-place house exteriors in existing areas?
The former require access to the area files. The latter puts an upper limit on available housing.

zhazz wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:44 pm

Planehopper wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:49 pm

Locations, Sizes, and Cost:

• Cost for settlement housing is a base 300k + 25k per tile used.

What is considered a settlement in this context?
Settlement usually implies a village of collection of buildings near a frontier. What's the context here? Does Baldur's Gate count as a settlement? Does Beregost?

A settlement. Both of those are settlements. Towns, villages, cities, etc.

Planehopper wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:49 pm

Process:

• Player sends PM to Developer distro with link to already-built map (.erf file required), screenshot of door/house to use in respective city, and link to qualifying character bio.

I'm not sure what this means to be honest. Do we need to add the extrerior building to an existing area to show placement and orientation? Or is it limited to already in-place house exteriors in existing areas?
The former require access to the area files. The latter puts an upper limit on available housing.

It means that you will be creating an entirely new, small, exterior area. This area will then be linked by transition to the map you want your house to be on. We are not going to be avoiding adding new houses on top of existing exterior maps, beyond maybe a path that leads off into the distance (which we will do ourselves), where the available houses can be chosen from.