Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Steve wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:37 pm Charisma:

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting.

Almarea90 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:35 pm

Steve wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:37 pm Charisma:

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting.

If someone bases their own charisma on attractiveness, then you are absolutely right. But that is not always the case. For example Tyrion Lannister isn't exactly pretty but I'd say he is charismatic. I'd say in most cases it's not noticeable at first glance, someone has to somehow act to make it noticeable.

bncrn wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:33 pm I disagree. I personally find it only enhances my experience when I can judge what parts of a person is physical beauty and what's charisma. Someone can be gorgeous but uninteresting, just like they can be normal-looking but a great leader and inspirer of people.

JustAnotherGuy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:47 pm

bncrn wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:33 pm I disagree. I personally find it only enhances my experience when I can judge what parts of a person is physical beauty and what's charisma. Someone can be gorgeous but uninteresting, just like they can be normal-looking but a great leader and inspirer of people.

That is where examines and RP comes in. There's no way you can tell at a glance that someone is a great leader or inspiration. Examines can tell you their physical attributes. But their personality and magnetism must be found out through RP. It makes no sense to say that you can tell that just by looking at them.

GholaMan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:59 am Except DND constantly breaks this charisma feature of being physically attractive all the time. Just browse the 3.5 monster manual, hags, dragons, liches, just to name a few. Stats are not physical even physical ones would be hard to pin down for many reasons. Just wearing armor is going to hide someone's physique, and potentially their physical attractiveness, being able to appraise a character and get their race is far too much meta information let alone someone's stats. This, it just doesn't need to be implemented.

GholaMan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 2:07 am Dolorof, hard to tell if trolling, sarcastic or serious.

You think a skeletor looking lich is attractive? Cheeks are supposed to clap not clack.

JustAnotherGuy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:47 pm That is where examines and RP comes in. There's no way you can tell at a glance that someone is a great leader or inspiration. Examines can tell you their physical attributes. But their personality and magnetism must be found out through RP. It makes no sense to say that you can tell that just by looking at them.

bncrn wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 3:03 am

JustAnotherGuy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:47 pm That is where examines and RP comes in. There's no way you can tell at a glance that someone is a great leader or inspiration. Examines can tell you their physical attributes. But their personality and magnetism must be found out through RP. It makes no sense to say that you can tell that just by looking at them.

Having a visible charisma score allows me to gauge how my character will react to others. If you have two characters who roleplay in exactly the same way, one with CHA 10 and one with 20+, one will seem more interesting than the other with no effort made. Someone can roleplay super interesting and charming, but if their charisma is 8 my character won't react the same way as to someone with a high score. Description and roleplay just doesn't cover everything.
It doesn't have to be advanced. -3 to -2 low, -1 below average, 0 average, +1 above average, +2 to +3 high, +4 and more very high. Makes small investments matter without showing specifics.

JustAnotherGuy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 7:30 pm I think you're making my point for me. Having a visible CHA score will change how people react to someone, without any effort on the other person's part. This is a bad thing, not a good thing.

Charisma is such a broadly defined term that covers so many things. The score doesn't (and shouldn't) tell you how to react to a toon. For instance, my toon is a low CHA toon. However, in my description I say that he's decent looking. He really stands out to people, before he even speaks (He's 6'8" with long green hair, and carries a giant axe). He has even attracted a following of people who look up to him. Yet anyone who RPs with him much will know he's NOT charismatic. He doesn't have a huge force of personality. Yet he's able to cover for this with a high WIS score. He knows when to keep his mouth shut.

When one first meets him, one would simply think him a stupid barbarian, as a result of his low CHA. But it turns out he's a wise druid, who also has a pretty decent INT score. But he's not charismatic.

But where does this low CHA come into play? Mostly in his self doubting. He isn't as confident in himself as one with a high CHA would be. He puts on a good front, but is constantly seeking validation from others. Can seeing his CHA score tell you this? Absolutely not. In fact, most people who RP with him won't even see this. It's only when one gets very close to him that they will see the effects of his low CHA.

Putting an examinable CHA score where people can see it would negate literally hundreds of hours of RP and character shaping.

bncrn wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 12:54 am
I don't think it wouldn't negate any roleplay at all. All it would do is let me know that your character is a bit below average charisma, for the sake of my own character's immediate impression of yours. That's all.

In the case of high CHA characters I think it's good to be able to give them the interest that a high score in my opinion deserves. High CHA can be difficult to get across in text and knowing that someone has a high score helps with the accurate portrayal of their character.