Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

This has been discussed by staff previously.

Thing is, if you make it expensive enough to be a proper gold sink (say, about 10 mill), then there'll be a giant discrepancy between the highs and the lows of who can buy it.

If you make it cheap enough to be accessible (around 2 mill, yes, that is cheap), it'll be of too easy access and not a good gold sink.

Basically, there's no real way to make it fair for everyone. So, better it doesn't exist in this case.
Also there are many staff members who straight up don't think 100% RCRs should be buyable.


In other news, DMs give 75%/100% RCR if a character embraces a permadeath through RP, btw! So while not the same as buying an RCR to fix a mistake, it's still a way to recycle the character.

Since when is 2 million cheap???

If 2 million is cheap, we might need to consider actually outright discontinuing the previous economy and creating a new one. Because that kind of inflation is absurd.

Rhifox wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:52 pm Since when is 2 million cheap???

If 2 million is cheap, we might need to consider actually outright discontinuing the previous economy and creating a new one. Because that kind of inflation is absurd.

I agree! But 2 mill for a gold sink is indeed not that much. Housing was meant to be a goldsink and it almost reaches 1 mill, it doesn't even make a dent.
A game where gold comes in but never out is bound to this flaw. 2 mill gold is indeed cheap

Green Monster wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:25 pm
"Only the Sith deal in absolutes", said Obi-Wan, making an absolute statement.

Friggin' Space Trek references in a D&D forum. Where are the moderators when you need them!

5 Million?! By Dr. Spock's beard, that is just asinine!

Maybe if I was going to reroll an entirely new character. Fine I can see something like that.
But to fix a small but annoying little feat or skill points or Domain? - it would take weeks of nothing but daily grinds to gather just a 10th of that.
At 20k gold a day - that would be 250 days of straight grinding.

There needs to be a distinction between buying "free experience" and not having to start over losing all the experience we worked hard to gather because of an build error. Its a super complex game with massive amounts of custom content. I would be worried about you if you were not making errors!
We also just happen to be humans (or space elves- if you are into Star Force or whatever its called) and we happen to make mistakes. So, it would be nice if we did not have to be massively penalized with exp or gold to fix something innocently broken, or less optimal in our builds. Busting down a level 30 to 20 is fine if you are rerolling. But it hurts, if I just need to fix something minor on an existing character that you worked hard to create and grow.

I doubt there is much that can be done about it. I always assumed it would be too difficult to create an 'RCR wizard' for small changes and too much of a burden to admin to help/enforce small change rcr's for players. But perhaps DMs can issue a fix character rcr token for either a gold fee (500k-1MM) or a less expensive expensive exp fee?

EDIT: So keep the current RCR thing but make the 'RCR Fix' available only to characters that reach 30. If I make a mistake I have to get to level 30 first then either pay a DM in gold or exp to fix the character. This will keep the number of requests to a minimum.

renshouj wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:36 pm Thing is, if you make it expensive enough to be a proper gold sink (say, about 10 mill), then there'll be a giant discrepancy between the highs and the lows of who can buy it.

If you make it cheap enough to be accessible (around 2 mill, yes, that is cheap), it'll be of too easy access and not a good gold sink.

Basically, there's no real way to make it fair for everyone. So, better it doesn't exist in this case.

An option could be to take an evaluation of account wealth, and interpolate between a set floor price and a percentage of total account wealth. Given the server data shared occasionally via charts and metrics, I have every expectation that this data can be tracked within a reasonable historical method, if it isn't already.
For example (numbers simply suggestions of possible methods for illustration):
The higher of 2 million GP minimum, or 10% of account wealth.
Or alternatively
1-million + 10% account wealth.

Either would set a minimum price not to be trivial, but also have a cost that scales impactfully to all possible users.
Using total account-wealth-value would likely impact people with more characters (as having 20 alts would basically require bankrupting 2 for an RCR), and could be exploited by gold handoffs unless historical data were retained for the calculation. However, I think that both of these issues could be addressed with an appropriate implementation.

renshouj wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:57 pm

Rhifox wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:52 pm Since when is 2 million cheap???

If 2 million is cheap, we might need to consider actually outright discontinuing the previous economy and creating a new one. Because that kind of inflation is absurd.

I agree! But 2 mill for a gold sink is indeed not that much. Housing was meant to be a goldsink and it almost reaches 1 mill, it doesn't even make a dent.
A game where gold comes in but never out is bound to this flaw. 2 mill gold is indeed cheap

2 million is cheap for some, sure. But I would argue it's not for most. Only those who haven't spent anything in a decade, or those who go loot grinding all the time would consider that cheap.

To use myself as an example, I've had Emmanuel for a few months shy of 4 years now. I went out grinding for loot to pay for his gear. Then I sold an epic item for about 2.5 million. Bought more gear and a house. Right now, I feel as if he's absolutely rich, at a cool 800k gold. So, for me, 2 million is nearly 4 years of work on my toon, as that's about how much income I've gotten.

Now, I'll readily admit I could have made a lot more. But that's kind of my point. Creating such a vast gold sink would be actively encouraging less RP, and more loot grinding. For me, in my position, I'd say that even about 250k is too expensive. I wouldn't make that much in the time it would take me to simply level from 20-30.

I'm surprised that our crafters and appraisers don't speak up about how worthless gold is. You give me 435k XP (ECL0 lv 30) and I'll give you 10 million. Deal? Don't know how we can actually conduct business, but you get the gist.

People who have gold, truly have a ridiculous amount of it. It's hard to wrap one's head around it when all you can see are the numbers in your own inventory.
But yeah, overall I myself am against being able to buy RCRs, because to me the fair price would be too high for most of the server - including myself, mind you

I don’t really have a dog in this fight, but I’m generally in favor of finding ways to give gold more inherent value. That said, I recognize that the terms rich and cheap are relative by definition which makes it near impossible to determine a price for such a thing.

Oi oi ! This bartender always broke!

Ok, so, MOST people think that 100% RCR is too hard to come by, a few think it shouldn't exist, and no one can agree about what is fair if it did exist. So how about this:

Every CD key gets ONE and ONLY ONE 100% RCR per real world calendar year. I actually have two cd keys (long story) but I'd be happy to give staff the old one and tell them not to give that one an RCR.

If you do not use your 1 RCR for the year, too bad. It doesn't roll over. So if Jim the Crossbow Hin still has his RCR left on December 31st at 11:59 pm in whatever time zone is local to the server, after 1 minute he doesn't have 2. He has a new one and his old one expired.

Rhifox wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:52 pm Since when is 2 million cheap???

If 2 million is cheap, we might need to consider actually outright discontinuing the previous economy and creating a new one. Because that kind of inflation is absurd.

2 million is not cheap to me. I've never had more than about 750k on my person at any given time, and still don't. I would have to kick cash-grinding into overtime to get that, and it's just... not what I game for.

Green Monster wrote: ↑Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:52 am Ok, so, MOST people think that 100% RCR is too hard to come by, a few think it shouldn't exist, and no one can agree about what is fair if it did exist. So how about this:

Every CD key gets ONE and ONLY ONE 100% RCR per real world calendar year. I actually have two cd keys (long story) but I'd be happy to give staff the old one and tell them not to give that one an RCR.

If you do not use your 1 RCR for the year, too bad. It doesn't roll over. So if Jim the Crossbow Hin still has his RCR left on December 31st at 11:59 pm in whatever time zone is local to the server, after 1 minute he doesn't have 2. He has a new one and his old one expired.

Further refinement: To prevent any errors or arguments, such as "But I should get a new 100 RCR because I STARTED last years one at Dec 31, 11:57 pm but didn't get finished before midnight" or "But it wasn't midnight yet in MY time zone!", etc, the RCR tree would not function at all for 24 hours on either side of Dec 31, 11:59 pm, server local time (whatever that is. EDT?).

Rhifox wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:52 pm Since when is 2 million cheap???

If 2 million is cheap, we might need to consider actually outright discontinuing the previous economy and creating a new one. Because that kind of inflation is absurd.

A valid topic!!

Right now, for a player with a Level 30 toon interested in either playing another toon OR “fixing” the current one by rebuilding the Sheet:

1. Take a 50% XP tax to RCR.
2. Roll up a new PC from Level 1.

So many times, BGTSCC’s players bemoan the leveling process, and some wish to RCR but cannot spent the future IG time necessary to get the PC back to Level 30 (where the player feels desirous to be…and has likely been RPing said power level for some time).

Thus, many players either don’t OR they do RCR then power grind back to Level 30…the latter creating little-to-none Role-play.

So, say this player had this “dilemna” but also had 2 million coin. Where is the real problem with said player NOT using their IG gains to provide a respite from a future grind that provides no RP but just mind numbing grinding?

On the second option, a player can choose to roll up a newbie PC. However, and again, many a BGTSCC laments the leveling process (although they DO want to gain experience…but that’s another topic). The conundrum here is where the player will decide to quit the Server because they a) can’t deal with the RCR-grind-back-to-30; b) can’t imagine the leveling “slog” from Level 1. I usually stay away from this “losing players” hypothetical, but I do know quite a few players whom have quit because of the current limitations of regeneration of player internet when their RL no longer affords them time to “put in the work.”

This is a game, not a job. Whenever possible, make it easier to play it.



Finally then, we could expand our possibility for future-generative RP from players by adding some options to player/character regeneration:

1. Take a 50% XP tax to RCR.
2. Roll up a new PC from Level 1.
3. 2 million coin for 100% RCR @ Level 30.