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Re: Post 30 character progession
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 4:38 am
by DaloLorn
MrSmith wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2023 3:26 pm
DaloLorn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2023 6:11 am
That extra language thing is not actually in use by the DMs:
I apologize for my ignorance. What do you mean by "extra language thing"?
Cheers!
MrSmith
Riddance made a reference to a mechanic that has been in a weird sort of limbo state for as long as I've been on the server: DMs granting extra languages to a PC if the player roleplayed learning them. I think there's still references to it somewhere, much like how the wiki (and possibly IG texts, not sure) says some spellcasting feats like Circle Magic or Blood Magic can be obtained via "Magical Discovery" - which is basically the same thing, incidentally - but I can't think of a single example of it actually
happening in my time. As far as I know, the current DM team doesn't support that system, so Riddance trying to expand it is sort of putting the cart before the horse.
Re: Post 30 character progession
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 11:50 am
by Green Monster
I used to play on an NWN1 server in which you gained crafting skill point bonuses for practicing your craft. If we had proper crafting, I'd love to see that. Frankly I think crafting and enchanting our own weapons/armor/etc is LONG overdue, but I understand that the team wants to be able to control what build types have what available to them, so I'm not holding my breath.
Re: Post 30 character progession
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 12:45 pm
by MrSmith
DaloLorn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 4:38 am
MrSmith wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2023 3:26 pm
DaloLorn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2023 6:11 am
That extra language thing is not actually in use by the DMs:
I apologize for my ignorance. What do you mean by "extra language thing"?
Cheers!
MrSmith
Riddance made a reference to a mechanic that has been in a weird sort of limbo state for as long as I've been on the server: DMs granting extra languages to a PC if the player roleplayed learning them. I think there's still references to it somewhere, much like how the wiki (and possibly IG texts, not sure) says some spellcasting feats like Circle Magic or Blood Magic can be obtained via "Magical Discovery" - which is basically the same thing, incidentally - but I can't think of a single example of it actually
happening in my time. As far as I know, the current DM team doesn't support that system, so Riddance trying to expand it is sort of putting the cart before the horse.
Thank you for the context. Very helpful.
Cheers,
MrSmith
Re: Post 30 character progession
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 4:11 pm
by Green Monster
blazerules wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 1:35 pm
For skills though, that just encourages grind since XP based.
I mean.... the entire game from level 1 is about trading xp for improved skills, so..... what's the difference? In a post lvl 30 scenario where you can sacrifice 32k xp for +1 to a skill, so long as it doesn't raise the base skill above 33, my suggestion was you could only do it once a month. I think most level 30s can get 32k xp in a month without having to grind very hard.
Re: Post 30 character progession
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:15 pm
by artemitavik
at some point, everything (if this happens) is going to be about some sort of grind/availbility.
Epic quests? Sure, you just have to be there and put in the time for when the Dms are running stuff. Or request things for that, and then be there and put in the time for it.
XP trade? Same diff, it goes to the people who are there and put in the time for it. Same with gold grind. I don't gold grind a lot, I'm poor. People I know grind way more than I do. They are not poor.
Other than amassing millions of undervalued currency, an xp-trade npc for 1 point of something/month, so 12 points total in a year, to still not take skills above the maxed 33 skill levels, I think is a pretty reasonable function to keep people invested in their gaming and character development.
If that goes in, there's going to have to be something to address the dozens of folks who will immediately be "well, I've been here for 4 years, can I have my 48 points please?" but ultimately, it's not a bad thought.
Re: Post 30 character progession
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:49 pm
by MrSmith
artemitavik wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:15 pm
Epic quests? Sure, you just have to be there and put in the time for when the Dms are running stuff. Or request things for that, and then be there and put in the time for it.
Epic quests are not DM events. They are routine 7 day quests that are Epic Hard. If you were to complete them, you would gain a History Feat and all of the glory, et al that comes with it.
artemitavik wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:15 pm
If that goes in, there's going to have to be something to address the dozens of folks who will immediately be "well, I've been here for 4 years, can I have my 48 points please?"
Why? Because they joined the Server "n" of years ago. Ideally, we would agree to promote a meritocracy... "You achieve and you succeed". Time on station has no bearing. Rather, complete the Epic Quest and become a hero you want to play in game.
Cheers!
MrSmith
Re: Post 30 character progession
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:37 pm
by artemitavik
Well, if they're scripted quests like the leveling quests we have, that's still a sort of grind so... *shrug*
Re: Post 30 character progession
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2023 4:38 pm
by Józef Taktyka
artemitavik wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:15 pm
Other than amassing millions of undervalued currency, an xp-trade npc for 1 point of something/month, so 12 points total in a year, to still not take skills above the maxed 33 skill levels, I think is a pretty reasonable function to keep people invested in their gaming and character development.
That's a good idea.
Basically, post lvl 30 progression can only be 'mechanics' oriented. Quests and plot sound fine but there is no progress in it, no journey. Perhaps we could add additional epic lvls in a way Diablo 3 did it. You reach the cap and then you start advancing in epic lvls up to 300, if I remember correctly. You don't get any additional mechanical bonuses, just a prettier portrait and other cosmetics.
It's a loose example but the main idea is that people will have a
goal. Something that has progress and a looong way to achieve it.
Re: Post 30 character progession
Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 6:34 pm
by MrSmith
Józef Taktyka wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26, 2023 4:38 pm
Quests and plot sound fine but there is no progress in it, no journey.
Not true. What I am promoting is the idea that Epic Quests provide characters skill points... progress... while also garnering an Epic Feat, aka epic-journey.
Cheers!
MrSmith
Re: Post 30 character progession
Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2024 11:48 am
by Green Monster
MrSmith wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 6:34 pm
Józef Taktyka wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26, 2023 4:38 pm
Quests and plot sound fine but there is no progress in it, no journey.
Not true. What I am promoting is the idea that Epic Quests provide characters skill points... progress... while also garnering an Epic Feat, aka epic-journey.
Cheers!
MrSmith
I like this, except that creating specific quests for this would require a lot more work from devs who are already over-worked and not paid. Plus an epic quest sounds like a lot to go through for 1 skill point. That's why I suggested the concept of sacrificing xp via an npc in the nexus. Still requires dev work, of course, but only 1 npc with 1 script as opposed to whole new epic quests.
Note that this would allow people to raise non-class skills above 16, which is fine with me but I wouldn't be upset if non-class skills were limited to 16. Also note that the numbers are, like everything about this, merely suggestions. 30 days is debatable. 32,000 xp is debatable. Every individual aspect is debatable. There have in the past been cases where some people (not you) have rejected an entire concept because they disagreed with only 1 singular specific number within it.
Dialog something like this:
(spoiler for tldr reasons)
1 You talk to npc:
If you have less than 528,000 xp-> "I'm sorry. Come speak to me when you have learned more in the realms" (option = end dialog)
If you have 528,000 xp -> goto 2
2
if you have traded xp for a skill point within the last 30 days -> "Hello again! You spoke to me recently. Come back when you have practiced your new skill a little longer, say in about [insert timestamp of last skill raise +30 days - timestamp now, in days, unless days = 0, then in minutes]." (option = end dialog)
if you have not traded xp for a skill point within the last 30 days -> goto 3
3
If you have 33 in ALL of your skills (would take decades even for a pure class rogue with max INT, but still possible) -> "I'm sorry, there's nothing more I can do for you." (option = end dialog)
If you do not have 33 in all your skills -> "Hello! Would you like to trade 32,000 xp for a skill increase?" (options = Yes, No)
Answer no ->end dialog
Answer yes -> goto 4
4
Generates list of all the character's skills that are < 33 base. "Choose the skill you would like to increase:" (options = that list of skills + cancel option)
answer with skill choice -> goto 5
answer with cancel -> end dialog
5
"You sure you want to trade 32,000 experience for +1 to [insert chosen skill]?" (options Yes, No, Cancel)
answer yes -> lose 32,000 xp and raise chosen skill by 1, update timestamp of last skill raise, then goto 6
answer no -> return to 4
answer cancel -> end dialog
6
"Congratulations! You have raised [insert chosen skill} by 1. Come see me in 30 days to raise another skill. You must have recovered all the lost experience to do so." (option = End dialog)
ETA: BTW, I really like the idea of an epic progression quest, but because of the work involved by the devs and my idea of the difficulty of epic quests, I think it should reward something a little more special than +1 skill point. What about your choice of any feat from the
"Skills and Saves" feat list, except Able Learner, and one random Epic item from the loot tables,
but the quest resets only once per RL 6 months? **
** Or possibly the quest can only be done once per 6 months per CD key? Or year? Again, specific details are as debatable as the entire concept. Idk why some people on this forum think all suggestions are binary yes/no as-is.