Reducing the amount of restrictions on grind XP

[Zanniej]

Thing is, while I definitely understand that some people would prefer to keep it a challenge, some people would rather it isn't. And both should be fine, and both should be possible. Variety is the spice of life.

That’s what is here on BGTSCC right now without any changes needed to be made.

Not in regards to grouping. You'll get penalized for grouping with people of a higher level. So in that regard, I can certainly agree on lifting that restriction.

Personally, I completely ignore grinding in the narrative of the server. Means to an end, and an OOC one at that. But there are those who enjoy it, so I see no reason why it shouldn't be allowed to stay as well.


I also don't see much reason for keeping such a restriction in place. From an RP perspective, I think I could learn a lot from following along with a more experienced fighter, and it'll also give even more incentive to RP together.
And if someone would stop grouping together due to a large level difference, then removing that restriction might just be the way to promote more RP It's a wasted opportunity at RP otherwise, just for the sake of preventing the grind. But the grind will happen regardless.

[EasternCheesE]

Fresh character observations, made before the RP XP increase.

Personally I would rather make more incentives to RP than to grind. I don't want to disable grinding, but I do think the focus on encouragement should be entirely on RP. You can say allowing groups helps that, but please lets not lie to ourselves and say that there's going to be much RP in the Xvart circle grind, whether there is a 30 there or not.

The increase in RP XP that Honk/Eien got through was a good move, and should improve the XP gain for large level span groups if they are in fact RPing when out doing dungeons. Beyond that, I'd suggest looking for other ways of encouraging XP gain by actual RP - and happily also specifically targetted at large level differences. Don't know how right now, or I'd suggest it myself, but further enabling what effectively amounts to OOC circle grinding isn't it.

I'd rather say that there are so many ways to avoid/cheese said group rules that it actually is a gate without a fence or a lock. Under such circumstances, it only hurts "good case play" where people really wanna have fun together despite level difference (cause, well, they could have both RP and mob XP). And, if someone really wanna do power-house-train-road-to-30, they have a plethora of ways and this exact rule doesn't slow them down much.

[artemitavik]

Thing is, while I definitely understand that some people would prefer to keep it a challenge, some people would rather it isn't. And both should be fine, and both should be possible. Variety is the spice of life.

That’s what is here on BGTSCC right now without any changes needed to be made.

Not in regards to grouping. You'll get penalized for grouping with people of a higher level. So in that regard, I can certainly agree on lifting that restriction.

Personally, I completely ignore grinding in the narrative of the server. Means to an end, and an OOC one at that. But there are those who enjoy it, so I see no reason why it shouldn't be allowed to stay as well.


I also don't see much reason for keeping such a restriction in place. From an RP perspective, I think I could learn a lot from following along with a more experienced fighter, and it'll also give even more incentive to RP together.
And if someone would stop grouping together due to a large level difference, then removing that restriction might just be the way to promote more RP It's a wasted opportunity at RP otherwise, just for the sake of preventing the grind. But the grind will happen regardless.

I used to regularly take lower levels through dungeons I "outleveled". RPed instructing them if that was the RP that day, all that stuff.

I just... didn't group with them. Granted, this makes, if you're a magic user, using magic healing and aoes perhaps more difficult, but they got the xp for killing stuff, I only stepped in mechanically if things got overwhelming, rp was had, loot was found, they got xp from stuff they wouldn't necessarily have been able to fight on their own and thus leveled fast, good times all around. It takes a bit of energy to keep track of their HP and stuff, sure, because you don't have the group listing on the side of your screen, but it's very doable and super fun.

[Ghost]

I'd rather say that there are so many ways to avoid/cheese said group rules that it actually is a gate without a fence or a lock. Under such circumstances, it only hurts "good case play" where people really wanna have fun together despite level difference (cause, well, they could have both RP and mob XP). And, if someone really wanna do power-house-train-road-to-30, they have a plethora of ways and this exact rule doesn't slow them down much.

None of that invalidates anything about what I said. So I still stand by it.

[EasternCheesE]

I'd rather say that there are so many ways to avoid/cheese said group rules that it actually is a gate without a fence or a lock. Under such circumstances, it only hurts "good case play" where people really wanna have fun together despite level difference (cause, well, they could have both RP and mob XP). And, if someone really wanna do power-house-train-road-to-30, they have a plethora of ways and this exact rule doesn't slow them down much.

None of that invalidates anything about what I said. So I still stand by it.

Oh, we may have got a bit of misunderstanding. Apologies if my reply made it look like i try to say what you say is wrong.
I just got vibe you were against lifting the rule, thus i just added one more argument in favor of it.

I did level a fresh char myself, which is rogue-wizard (and fresh rogues are traditionally hard to level) in UD. By the time i hit lvl 21, i already had at least 2 ninja items i bought on that char without any appraiser help (well, i got a bit of appraisal myself). Essentially, getting plain +3 gear is a matter of doing 1-2 level-appropriate dungeons (even solo), aka 1-2 hours at worst. Skilled player can get their fresh PC +3 dressed in a matter of 1 hour without any muling, solo.

Your point about working on RP focus is completely valid and it definitely should be a priority for our team.

Here we just got a rule that made sense before, when server had phat online and people had chance to find level-appropriate party easily. Nowadays, things are a bit different and thus, the rule brings more harm than help while also not serving its main purpose: stopping grind powerhouse.

Thus, to me, both pursuing options you mention AND deciding to lift this rule pretty much go in line because it removes possible RP restriction that may not be too often, but still happens on quite a regular basis (happened to me more than enough times to know what i speak about).

Also, given player level would still be checked against mob level, lvl 30 PCs won't be able to make a CR 20 dungeon rollercoaster for 5 lvl 1 PCs regardless.

[Ghost]

No, you're right: I am against lifting the rule. Just because people sneak on the train without paying for it doesn't mean we should make the train ride free.

I am against lifting the rule, and I am for adding more RP-centred avenues for people to group up regardless of level difference. I don't have any such in mind, or I would suggest it. But again, further enabling the mindless circlegrind with no level difference restrictions (and thust nullifying all risk) is not it.

[Louvaine]

To be fair, with the amount of RP XP happening right now it's so much more easier and more convenient to just participate in campfire role-play than it is to grind.

I am against lifting the rule, and I am for adding more RP-centred avenues for people to group up regardless of level difference. I don't have any such in mind, or I would suggest it. But again, further enabling the mindless circlegrind with no level difference restrictions (and thust nullifying all risk) is not it.

I like your thinking - not that I'm against mindless grinding, personally. Cave in troll claws with all the spider (old silver mine?) comes to mind. Has bunch of skill checks, challenging monsters and interesting loot (gems). Maybe we can add more of that kind? Then again, perhaps we're far too off-topic at this point.

[Ghost]

I'm not necessarily against mindless grinding either, though I realise it might sound like it. I just don't want to further encourage or enable it. I'm fine with it as it is right now.

[MrSmith]

No, you're right: I am against lifting the rule. Just because people sneak on the train without paying for it doesn't mean we should make the train ride free.

This is the classic Free Rider Problem and I opine it does not apply. Why? The original post seeks ways to group up without plenty. This is precisely what you are promoting...

I am against lifting the rule, and I am for adding more RP-centred avenues for people to group up regardless of level difference.

How is your intent dissimilar with the Original Poster's intent? The presumption is that "grinding" does not set conditions nor lead to RP. For clarity, I copied OP's stated intent here.

Right now XP on grinding has a lot of restrictions in groups. You have to be within range of the enemy, less than 6, and the person leveling with you can't be too high of a level. Our player count is lower and I don't think we need to worry about such heavier restrictions. Plus it will help parties stick together instead of splitting with them, which is good, personally.

Cheers!
MrSmith

[Ghost]

I'm not saying the intent is different at all. I'm very confident Valleriani has RP in mind, in fact. I just disagree with the proposed solution.

[EasternCheesE]

Given we got at least one admin voting no, i guess, we need other admin to say her word so we know if this suggestion has any chance to go in.

[Ghost]

I'm not that kind of admin, and I wish people would stop assuming I am. My vote counts as much as any other staff.

[Steve]

Given we got at least one admin voting no, i guess, we need other admin to say her word so we know if this suggestion has any chance to go in.

I'd also hope that it isn't just a paradigm of "if the Admins say it goes, IT (do-me)' GOES!" currently. Meaning: community should also be able to "weigh in" if something that affects everyone, should be changed.

Really though, this suggestion is far more "heavy" than it seems, on the surface. Because it implies that Players are still trying to grind up to Level 30 as a goal, and interested in bringing along others to that goal asap. Where it would benefit the Server better, overall, if the lower levels of play and experience were steadily enjoyable, and for a longer time. That literally, "epic role-play" and "epic adventures" could be had at any level, and on a slow burn.

Because if that isn't the goal, then justify having low level content, and so much of it, go underutilized on BGTSCC. Empty pockets of existence!!!!

[DaloLorn]

I'm not that kind of admin, and I wish people would stop assuming I am. My vote counts as much as any other staff.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The title has gravitas, whether you voluntarily exert it or not.

[EasternCheesE]

Given we got at least one admin voting no, i guess, we need other admin to say her word so we know if this suggestion has any chance to go in.

I'd also hope that it isn't just a paradigm of "if the Admins say it goes, IT (do-me)' GOES!" currently. Meaning: community should also be able to "weigh in" if something that affects everyone, should be changed.

Really though, this suggestion is far more "heavy" than it seems, on the surface. Because it implies that Players are still trying to grind up to Level 30 as a goal, and interested in bringing along others to that goal asap. Where it would benefit the Server better, overall, if the lower levels of play and experience were steadily enjoyable, and for a longer time. That literally, "epic role-play" and "epic adventures" could be had at any level, and on a slow burn.

Because if that isn't the goal, then justify having low level content, and so much of it, go underutilized on BGTSCC. Empty pockets of existence!!!!

Don't get me wrong. I simply think that people who got to admin role are smart enough for it. If two of them are against it, it's a big sign for me that this suggestion has something wrong in it. Doesn't mean they two can't be wrong, but it makes me think it over yet again.