Re: Kip up, Tumble and Hips
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2026 5:32 pm
Ah, the good ol' "We're not really epic characters but here's a select epic skill usage" gag.
Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World
Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World BGTSCC Discussion Forum
https://bgtscc.net/
Kip up, Tumble and Hips
Page 2 of 2
Re: Kip up, Tumble and Hips
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2026 7:41 pm
Why it feels like some people never even seen the stats of a pure Hipster? lol
AC barely 40 buffed
AB looks much worse
Saves pfft might as well not even say they have any
HP look like they dying even after a rest
Lucky if they can even take 1-3 Solid crits some cases a simple hit for that matter depending who's swinging at their heads
And people want them to get knockdown easier? lol
Nearly every Hipster class will rp they hate magic, there a damn good reason so.
A Dex base "Sneak" without Epic Dodge , UMD is utterly terrible to try and play unless they tossing in Swash or duelist which will make attacks even more horrid
And when they do want to make sure they gonna land something, most cases they gotta reveal themselves anyways and have wards from every region of Faerun
Any plain sneak attacking build shouldn't be trying to face anything face to face to begin with.
Most that are anything better than mediocre put a whole lot of homework into the build, but they still had to give up something that hurts their feelings.
I will never consider hips to be Op, its the "Oh snap GTFO" button. Op is when a 300 dmg zerk hits you that flipped your entire HP pool 2x over lol
AC barely 40 buffed
AB looks much worse
Saves pfft might as well not even say they have any
HP look like they dying even after a rest
Lucky if they can even take 1-3 Solid crits some cases a simple hit for that matter depending who's swinging at their heads
And people want them to get knockdown easier? lol
Nearly every Hipster class will rp they hate magic, there a damn good reason so.
A Dex base "Sneak" without Epic Dodge , UMD is utterly terrible to try and play unless they tossing in Swash or duelist which will make attacks even more horrid
And when they do want to make sure they gonna land something, most cases they gotta reveal themselves anyways and have wards from every region of Faerun
Any plain sneak attacking build shouldn't be trying to face anything face to face to begin with.
Most that are anything better than mediocre put a whole lot of homework into the build, but they still had to give up something that hurts their feelings.
I will never consider hips to be Op, its the "Oh snap GTFO" button. Op is when a 300 dmg zerk hits you that flipped your entire HP pool 2x over lol
Re: Kip up, Tumble and Hips
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2026 10:16 pm
I agree 100%
Re: Kip up, Tumble and Hips
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2026 10:18 pm
Agreed, rogue life is tuff! Not only are we required to have Epic Dodge to stay alive (I use that the term 'stay alive' loosely, because at 200HP its easy to get killed in 1 or 2 crits instantly..... It happens.... Rogue life 
), but Epic Precision is literally -required- to play; otherwise, we do 0 Damage to many monsters because of Immunities and our 0 strength to overcome DR.
I've never really understood why there is so much dislike for rogues
. We got burned on the addition of the "Stealth Icon", almost completely got wiped out from the suggestion to remove 'skill stacking' on gear, but.... here we are again trying to take stuff away something else...
Its quite hard to play a rogue. We can't even dream of going to the higher level areas for loots without -a lot- of help; yet, there are plenty of classes that I see go to Skull Gorge, or the Pirates alone, and take on a whole army while the player behind the screen is half falling asleep. Its comical that they can run through at full speed mindless with little thought needed, but we aren't talking about 'bringing them down'. And to be clear, I'm not suggesting they need to be changed either-- everyone finds enjoyment playing the game in different ways....
I guess I don't really understand where these sort of requests are coming from... does it stem from a lost fight in PVP?
), but Epic Precision is literally -required- to play; otherwise, we do 0 Damage to many monsters because of Immunities and our 0 strength to overcome DR.I've never really understood why there is so much dislike for rogues
. We got burned on the addition of the "Stealth Icon", almost completely got wiped out from the suggestion to remove 'skill stacking' on gear, but.... here we are again trying to take stuff away something else... Its quite hard to play a rogue. We can't even dream of going to the higher level areas for loots without -a lot- of help; yet, there are plenty of classes that I see go to Skull Gorge, or the Pirates alone, and take on a whole army while the player behind the screen is half falling asleep. Its comical that they can run through at full speed mindless with little thought needed, but we aren't talking about 'bringing them down'. And to be clear, I'm not suggesting they need to be changed either-- everyone finds enjoyment playing the game in different ways....I guess I don't really understand where these sort of requests are coming from... does it stem from a lost fight in PVP?
Re: Kip up, Tumble and Hips
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2026 10:50 pm
Of course it does! It's how I noticed that you can knock someone down and get zero attack rolls on them before they'll do equivalent of 3 rounds of actions in 1 second! Hips OP - your bluff won't work on a Pally
Re: Kip up, Tumble and Hips
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2026 3:16 am
I don't think '1 fight against 1 person' should trigger a game-wide change that's going to affect all rogue players. Us rogues get demolished by that quicken-cast spells & Instant death magic as we have no will saves, we immediately die... Or horrid wilting, that one hurts! definitely been killed by it by another player . HIPs didn't even matter since they attacked first (justified RP led to it) and then they just shoot the ground-- don't even have to see us 
.
I think the examples for different match-ups of players fighting players are probably numerous where one side feels it was 'unfair' because of something another character did... A Paladin in the death-magic example above would of likely easily wont that fight.. rogues not a chance. Either way though, changing something to affect so many players I hope isn't viewed lightly.
. HIPs didn't even matter since they attacked first (justified RP led to it) and then they just shoot the ground-- don't even have to see us . I think the examples for different match-ups of players fighting players are probably numerous where one side feels it was 'unfair' because of something another character did... A Paladin in the death-magic example above would of likely easily wont that fight.. rogues not a chance. Either way though, changing something to affect so many players I hope isn't viewed lightly.
Re: Kip up, Tumble and Hips
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2026 3:55 am
Then the problem is those other classes. Rogue is fine. The high epic areas shouldn't be easily soloable by anyone.
I have a rogue16/whirling dervish4/shadowdancer10 that I have played for over a decade. I too greatly dislike the stealth icon as it kind of takes away immersion (but I agree with the reason for its implementation). But beyond that, even with my quite weak build, I can solo the Frost Giant King with barely any consumable use.
From a PvE perspective: A standard rogue20/assassin10 hits harder than basically anything else, and most mobs and even bosses on the server have AC low enough to be hit with several attacks in the rogue's first flurry (which means landing the sneak attacks). They also have two of the best defensive feats in the game: Epic Dodge and HIPS.
The only true competitor for sheer damage output is some archer builds.
So I disagree that rogue life is tough. Rogue life is fine. But I also disagree that HIPS is OP. HIPS is fine.
The problem lies elsewhere.
But as far as any suggestion here goes, I stand by my usual perspective: Fix PvE before doing anything about character build options. And as for PvP, no one should seriously care about these particular points. If both sides know how to use their build best, PvP is won by those willing to spend enough gold on heal potions.Very little else matters.
Re: Kip up, Tumble and Hips
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2026 8:42 am
Not sure why it turned to discussion about rogues when every class can have and use all mentioned abilities. PvE aspect is there it is cause of how much good AC matters in PvE and that can be achived by a lot of builds.
Re: Kip up, Tumble and Hips
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2026 10:13 am
Not really about change of discussions, its more of players simply concerned about losing interest in what they enjoy, who were not the reasons of main discussion, and someone else trying to reassure them its not the issue.
From what it look like, you had a pvp scenario that had a bad outcome because you felt whom ever it was you were in engaged with , had some sort of unfair advantage over your character. Now your pushing a complaint about said scenario wanting to nerf it, without considering how it might effect others who wasnt involved or had nothing to do with what was going on nor has that same build,, and beginning to feel a lack interest in their game play because of it. The only reason why i peaked on this thread was because yesterday someone was thinking to do a whole rcr, a complete different build because they said this thread was leading to a nerf that kills what they made. Not in those words but yeah that just scratches their whole character concept they had going for them. I didnt get into the details but I understood how the guy felt, because I play a dedicated hipster and been heard all kinda complaints about hips since nwn1
From what it look like, you had a pvp scenario that had a bad outcome because you felt whom ever it was you were in engaged with , had some sort of unfair advantage over your character. Now your pushing a complaint about said scenario wanting to nerf it, without considering how it might effect others who wasnt involved or had nothing to do with what was going on nor has that same build,, and beginning to feel a lack interest in their game play because of it. The only reason why i peaked on this thread was because yesterday someone was thinking to do a whole rcr, a complete different build because they said this thread was leading to a nerf that kills what they made. Not in those words but yeah that just scratches their whole character concept they had going for them. I didnt get into the details but I understood how the guy felt, because I play a dedicated hipster and been heard all kinda complaints about hips since nwn1
Re: Kip up, Tumble and Hips
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2026 10:20 am
Hips was always there and always was a great ability. Kip-up is custom feature and it is implemented as I've explained not to work as a free action in defenders turn but currently working as reaction in attackers turn often prohibiting even single attack roll on someone knocked down.
Hips and tumble/jump teleport was just mentioned to portray how many actions can be stacked in very same second in a mechanics that derive from turn-based system. If you knock someone down you should be able to roll all remaining attacks on KD-d oponent and not be deprived of entire round of attacks cause it's faster for any light armor user to get up than you to attack. I feel it's a reasonable concern.
It stems from how light armor users have evasion, kip up and tumble while heavy armor users have ... +1 AC and much greater difficulty in finding proper (Entropium/Mithral) armor while +3 melodic light chain is available in unlimited quantities from vendor npc.
If you look at normal plate it becomes even more absurd cause 8/1 fullplate is actually 1AC less than 6/4 mithral chain... I know I'm not the only one seeing this as many people pointed out this problem during discussions on discord.
Hips and tumble/jump teleport was just mentioned to portray how many actions can be stacked in very same second in a mechanics that derive from turn-based system. If you knock someone down you should be able to roll all remaining attacks on KD-d oponent and not be deprived of entire round of attacks cause it's faster for any light armor user to get up than you to attack. I feel it's a reasonable concern.
It stems from how light armor users have evasion, kip up and tumble while heavy armor users have ... +1 AC and much greater difficulty in finding proper (Entropium/Mithral) armor while +3 melodic light chain is available in unlimited quantities from vendor npc.
If you look at normal plate it becomes even more absurd cause 8/1 fullplate is actually 1AC less than 6/4 mithral chain... I know I'm not the only one seeing this as many people pointed out this problem during discussions on discord.
Re: Kip up, Tumble and Hips
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2026 10:55 am
Could not have said it better myself. PVE rework needs to be completed before we start looking at sweeping any changes due to PVP. PVP is something a very small number of players on the server are even remotely interested in, and its something that has never really been "balanced" in this game at all and probably never will be. I haven't engaged in PVP in probably 5 years other than goofing around with some friends to test spells or something.Deathgrowl wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2026 3:55 amThen the problem is those other classes. Rogue is fine. The high epic areas shouldn't be easily soloable by anyone.
I have a rogue16/whirling dervish4/shadowdancer10 that I have played for over a decade. I too greatly dislike the stealth icon as it kind of takes away immersion (but I agree with the reason for its implementation). But beyond that, even with my quite weak build, I can solo the Frost Giant King with barely any consumable use.
From a PvE perspective: A standard rogue20/assassin10 hits harder than basically anything else, and most mobs and even bosses on the server have AC low enough to be hit with several attacks in the rogue's first flurry (which means landing the sneak attacks). They also have two of the best defensive feats in the game: Epic Dodge and HIPS.
The only true competitor for sheer damage output is some archer builds.
So I disagree that rogue life is tough. Rogue life is fine. But I also disagree that HIPS is OP. HIPS is fine.
The problem lies elsewhere.
But as far as any suggestion here goes, I stand by my usual perspective: Fix PvE before doing anything about character build options. And as for PvP, no one should seriously care about these particular points. If both sides know how to use their build best, PvP is won by those willing to spend enough gold on heal potions.Very little else matters.
Making big changes to classes over something maybe 5% of the player base engage in isn't wise before we look at underlying issues with PVE, the thing the majority of the playerbase actually engages in.