Make Warlock application only

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Darksider_war
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Re: Make Warlock application only

Unread post by Darksider_war »

Apart from the fact that there is no reason to post the same thing twice since the average person can get your message the first time, I'll quote Enaylius
Who wants to deal with trollish RP on a day to day basis? Hey, look at me, I'm a badarse warlock hanging around the FAI.
And Laisren:
If you want to RP a hardcore Warlock, that is great but you must be prepared to accept hardcore consequences. That is why the Thayans are all application only and the Blood Claws are a bunch of veteran players who play with the understanding that people are going to look to pick a fight with them.
Now, try to read the first entries of the topic, and you'll see that there are many players that have rolled a warlock that completely agree, in one way or in the other, on policing the class. And at least one of them happens to have one of the best rped warlocks on the server. This should say enough.
let people learn the game, learn the class, there is a lot of lore to be consumed. Plain and simple.
sorry to contradict you, but most players on the server actually inform themselves about the class they intend to play BEFORE rolling their character.
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Maverick 40
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Re: Make Warlock application only

Unread post by Maverick 40 »

Hehe, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't :lol:

Seriously though, let's not turn this into a right and wrong scenario. It is easily seen with the amount of posts on this topic, that this is a topic that must be addressed but let's do so in a constructive manner, working together for the best outcome.

We all want the best and most conducive environment for everybody. If you think how this is burdensome to you, then you are failing to see the purpose of the PW as a whole. This goes for everyone! I think Steve had post awhile back about what is involved in character creation and it is a brilliant one, but there are new players that all these concepts truly are abstract to. I know they were to me when I first got here!

So, live and let live so long as there is a spark of understanding and if the player refuses to appreciate, or take into account the opinions of others, well then there is that other school of thought :roll:
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dzidek1983
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Re: Make Warlock application only

Unread post by dzidek1983 »

we all miss one thing... limiting warlocks through RP sanctions should come with additional bonus to their abilities...

as of now thats a good PvM class thats it...

a powerfull evil force cant be blocked by a single spell....
thats laughing in the devils face right there....

furthermore warlocks would need some kind of settlement just like grey orc so they dont spawn near the campire or the city if they are KOS
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Re: Make Warlock application only

Unread post by Knightmare »

Haven't read the last couple of pages, but why would they be KoS? There's no way one can indentify a warlock from his invocations because he is able to manipulate them to look exactly like regular arcane spells - the mechanical limitations just doesn't make this possible in game.
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Re: Make Warlock application only

Unread post by Valefort »

This issue on how to recognize warlocks .. I was trying to find the info but wasn't able to find a clear statement.

We all know the 5 points in spellcraft will allow you to see that information in your combat log but it's likely way harder to identify, that's one of the excuse I've been using for avoiding warlocks alotgether.
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Charraj
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Re: Make Warlock application only

Unread post by Charraj »

I don't think KoS is really on the table, anyways.

The options that we've been talking about the most so far are:

1. Making Warlocks application-only

2. Void's feat idea, which lets players choose a pact and tells the players about their pact

3. Just respond to any RP (Warlock or otherwise) in an IC manner, without OOC hatred towards any other player, and without fear of OOC complaints from any other players.

I now think option 3 is the most reasonable, and it lets ALL of us take responsibility for our world. This means we have to stop letting our PvP be motivated by OOC hatred, which will hopefully allow us to stop fearing OOC complaints. It also means we have to stop being so serious about winning or losing at PvP.
Most importantly, it means we all have to stay IC and really think about what our characters are doing. I once saw a warlock admit to a paladin that he was a hellpact warlock. The resulting PvP was perfectly IC, and no complaints were lodged.
Remember, just go with the RP. And if you're still worried about complaints, just take screenshots of the RP and let the DMs figure it out.
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Re: Make Warlock application only

Unread post by Simian »

Darksider_war wrote:Apart from the fact that there is no reason to post the same thing twice since the average person can get your message the first time, I'll quote Enaylius
Who wants to deal with trollish RP on a day to day basis? Hey, look at me, I'm a badarse warlock hanging around the FAI.

And Laisren:
If you want to RP a hardcore Warlock, that is great but you must be prepared to accept hardcore consequences. That is why the Thayans are all application only and the Blood Claws are a bunch of veteran players who play with the understanding that people are going to look to pick a fight with them.

Now, try to read the first entries of the topic, and you'll see that there are many players that have rolled a warlock that completely agree, in one way or in the other, on policing the class. And at least one of them happens to have one of the best rped warlocks on the server. This should say enough.
let people learn the game, learn the class, there is a lot of lore to be consumed. Plain and simple.

sorry to contradict you, but most players on the server actually inform themselves about the class they intend to play BEFORE rolling their character.

As said earlier, I've witnessed a lot of warlocks. Good, bad, chaotic, and lawful in their approach to their characters. Some of them role-play well, some of them know their classes well, some of them are interesting, and some just dull.

But let us amuse the thought that we put some restrictions on who can be a Warlock. Now let us ask ourselves, do we really know any current Warlock characters who would be allowed to continue with the restrictions put in place? Can you claim that your criteria for the best role-played warlock is shared by all? After all, if you read the topic carefully you might notice how people do not even agree on what makes a Warlock.

And as for players informing themselves before they do something, when was the last time you read the entire manual for a new remote or a toaster? There are a lot of people who learn by doing, and even a school of role-playing who prefer to have character experiences guide their character progression. And yes, for some Warlock might be just someone who can 'Pew-Pew' blasts of energy all day long.

And let us not forget about all the other things new players do not inform themselves about...

Charraj wrote:1. Making Warlocks application-only
Warlock is a base class. As a base class, it is just a base that is further defined by the player itself. (Although some limitations do exist for all base classes, they are not nearly as confining as the ones that chain the prestige classes.)
Charraj wrote:2. Void's feat idea, which lets players choose a pact and tells the players about their pact
Another feat to select at character creation. I just hope that we have all 3.5 possibilities, since you can make pacts with almost everything with enough knowledge to corrupt and taint a soul to manifist Eldritch Powers. And in fact, you might have that manifestation without any pact whatsoever.
Charraj wrote:3. Just respond to any RP (Warlock or otherwise) in an IC manner, without OOC hatred towards any other player, and without fear of OOC complaints from any other players.
Nothing stops you from sharing your knowledge of things either... >_>
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Re: Make Warlock application only

Unread post by Hitman Hard »

But how does making a warlock KOS promote RP for that character, I'm sure it would make less people want to play one
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dzidek1983
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Re: Make Warlock application only

Unread post by dzidek1983 »

i hope for the lvl 1 pact choice...

application to the DM team.. lets be honest.. its all about a good story and some general knowledge of the topic, it wont stop using the class for mindless grinding, it just may scare off the lazy ones

and for the RP IC part... we dont have it now.. why would it change?

with one of my first Lock's about 3 years ago i had no problem to party or find help from the GOOD folk... i just took it as a omen of their stupidity... IC stupidity :) not real life
(short story) i used them for my advantage and then i let them die so i earn the most... the OOC hatred was more then funny... but when a DM delevled me... i got pissed off...

why do people party with obviously EVIL characters but cant live with them acting appropriate to their alignment and class?
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Blunkanthrust
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Re: Make Warlock application only

Unread post by Blunkanthrust »

Hitman Hard wrote:But how does making a warlock KOS promote RP for that character, I'm sure it would make less people want to play one
Well this thread is organic and is mainly discussion, people have their various opinions even if some advocate for KOS rules on Warlocks, they won't even enter into the world without the say so of the DM team so I wouldn't worry about that. On the other hand, you yourself on your warlock did PK my level 1 warlock (granted you didn't know I was level 1 or that it would kill him) without any RP warnings, or setting to hostile, during a player event, (based on a comment in this thread) designed to test the public reaction to warlocks, the event was developing quite nicely at the time, it certainly put me off wanting to play one again.
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Xanfyrst
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Re: Make Warlock application only

Unread post by Xanfyrst »

Hitman Hard wrote:But how does making a warlock KOS promote RP for that character, I'm sure it would make less people want to play one
I wouldn't mind that.

/hate on 96.7% of all warlocks
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Re: Make Warlock application only

Unread post by TheVoid »

The PW is not about restrictions when I came here. We have guidelines and certain guidelines are their to educate not create an elitist atmosphere of the have's and have nots.

The PW is as much an education in FR lore than it is an actual gaming environment. We want to inspire players with no or little knowledge of the setting to study and think about it a little more if they have the desire and the time too look it up or think about it critically. When Educating is also having fun you have a win win situation.

IMHO App only is not reasonable because it is more work for players and staff and brings up more controversy about the have and have nots. Also we have probably over 300 warlock characters in the vault or at least with warlock levels, how can we honestly propose an application system that wouldn't hamper or completely kill any interested or veteran warlock players from resuming their roles if they are required to push paperwork in order to be in-game? Or do you just Grandfather some these Warlocks and ignore the fact they may or may not adhere to their roles? Again, this is not an easy solution and ends up with with people either quitting the PW, retiring a valid character (RCR), or making claims that there is favortism for who is approved and who is not. A headache that I would not wish on any of the current staff.

I would say warlocks are just about as problematic as divine characters who do not follow the guidelines of their deity or code of conduct or are interpretted in such a way, completely devoid of facts regarding their role in the setting. So let's not go into restrictions just because a few elitists do not like the way a very small minority of players are Role playing.

I prefer educating the players and giving them choices that can guide them, similar if not identicle to Cleric Domains. Clerics choose domains that integral to the deity they worship which SHOULD have a direct impact on how their character is RP'd automatically, it also gives us something to discuss if the player does not adhere to the BASIC requirements of their role. Right now, with warlocks there are no guidelines (not rules) to help players focus their storyline hence it because a tool rather than a class. It is the same with Clerics on servers that do not require players to choose domains related to their deities portfolio, the infamous CODZILLA builds are notorious in having the wrong domains just for the purpose of powerbuilding.

It's not a rule perse but more a guideline to keep characters honest. It also clears up any vagueness when we have to discuss outrageous behavior that is completely contrary to the setting. Many times, players will just "make up something" that is outrageous, not to be facetious about it or too annoy others but because THEY DON'T KNOW BETTER and there are no available tools in the module to guide them. We can't assume that everyone logging in here knows everything about the class they are playing or are aware of all the issues regarding not only warlocks but all other controversial content that is brought up on the boards and IG.

Education and making it fun to learn is what I think the PW should be about. Not slamming the door in someone's face that doesn't fit the standards of a few knowledgable players.
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Re: Make Warlock application only

Unread post by Servin »

That's great and all, but can you extend the range of such education on all players, not just warlocks? All this warlock calling, referring to a certain group of individuals, who I have nothing to do with, isn't winning me any favours... Either call them 'The Warlocks' or 'Newbs' or something, as some still think that it's all about penalising the whole class in revenge for poor experience...
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Maverick 40
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Re: Make Warlock application only

Unread post by Maverick 40 »

This is from the 2013 Wishlist:
Maverick 40 wrote: Now, in earnest. I would want the implementation of a school system with matching graduation token.

Example:

Toby Le'vernt the Wild Elf graduates from Rhys Fierva's Doron Academy and receives a token giving him +5 to spellcraft and +5 to concentration.

Lucy Splintertoe the Strongheart Halfling goes to Ol'Kel's pickpocket nine pence unspoken school of the Dock's District and receives a token for +5 sleight of hand and +5 hide

Talbot Ironshield the Shield Dwarf decides to attend Laisren's Misty Forest Hunting and survival camp and after a long month of camping, receives a token certificate for +5 survival and +5 listen

All these player's would need to volunteer their time and create a DM recognized curriculum, but it would be great RP that would be rewarding for everyone involved and would save the DMs having to spice all the time.

Just a thought ;)
Question, what is Candlekeep's stance on Warlocks? Could they be offered schooling there?
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Re: Make Warlock application only

Unread post by stevebarracuda »

How many of you people complaining about Warlocks actually PLAY a Warlock toon?
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