Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

[Aspect of Sorrow]

It's a rubbish class which frequently never sees role play

That's not a very accurate representation.

Honestly a rule banning a few FvS multiclasses would be equally effective to a stat change, and it will probably be equally unpopular.

Agreed.

[TheLier]

Reminder: The current FS role means that an FS always knows best what their god wants, like a gut feeling. That means that a major disagreement about it should not be possible.
It sounds BS but this is the case. Without constant DM attention this is impossible to RP. It should be changed asap. Being FS is Chosen lithe.

So yeah, if you RP that expect others not to take you seriously. I might be an (hero) but do we really want that stay this way? Rewriting the whole fluff is a must IMO.

Also, Rping FS 27/paladin 3 as a fully trained paladin is not ok in my eyes. That means you might be a squire, but you are not a true paladin yet. I think not Rping classes and levels in them is poor form.

[AC81]

It's a rubbish class which frequently never sees role play - with people playing their 3 level paladin dips as their 'class'. The fact it is absurdly, comically out of balance is just icing on a really foul cake.

Any role play you can do with a favoured soul can be done post nerf. You will probably see more of it in fact. It is a wishy washy class in rp however and I will be lobbying for that to change as well.

Yes! If it were up to me I'd punt this class into non-existence. It feels homebrewed. If this class didn't exist and someone asked for it to be implemented in its current state, they would be flat out refused (and probably laughed at).
Having said that, removing the class isn't an option, nor I believe, is DM app. So that leaves us at nerf or leave it alone. Even the best nerf mentioned (wisdom as casting stat and lower spells cast per day) would make it the servers most powerful class. It's just the optimal build would now be a strength-based divine gish with IPA instead of a EDM FS/Cleric. Or you could just min/max hardcore and still be an EDM FS/Cleric. So nothing changes ... much.

As for nerfing other classes, I don't think it's needed. All other classes have very significant weaknesses. Bards, Druids, Wizards .... all can be picked apart, all have counters. Did someone even mention weapon masters and Defenders for the nerf?!?! Geez, nerfing fighter prc's and ones so easily countered. No way!
FS's are OP'd because they are top or near top in every aspect of this game. Also, they are RP'd shockingly and are the very definition of a snowflake. Keep them in game but take them out of players hands. Save them for NPC's so that DM's can cut them loose on PC's once in a while!

[Rhifox]

Stepping away from mechanic suggestions...

For the RP concept, I'd just change it from 'favored' to accidental. Make them more like divine sorcerers, carrying the powers of a god through some lucky supernatural heritage that was infused on their being somehow when they were born. Like children born of a powerful cleric gaining some of that god's powers, or getting imbued with some divine power after being born during an event of great divine significance (like events of great death causing some people born during it to be touched by the power of Myrkul or Bhaal, etc). Could even work in some Ur-Priest stuff in there too (didn't have the fortune to be born that way, and don't want to submit to a god like a cleric, so have learned how to steal the power somehow).

The big issue with the canon concept is the idea that it's a messiah figure chosen directly by the god to carry out their work on the mortal plane. If you just remove that and make them actually the divine equivalent to sorcerers, then it becomes a lot more reasonable for RP I think. People can still certainly believe they are chosen directly for some great task ("Why else would I have been born with these powers?"), but that'd be more on the characters to RP that belief rather than something intrinsic to the class itself.

For name changes, could go with something like Theurgist or Adept or something.

[Blackman D]

changing the name and description is probably something that will definitely be done to try to help make it better to rp and justify why there are so many of them

removing the "favored" part of the name is something i also suggested with the rename, the being born with a touch of divinity idea from someone who was in such a high favor with their god isnt a bad idea i think

i like theurgist, seems like it would be a good one

[Nomster]

I have not read all the pages but if we have 100% RCR refund... I would of all options, like to see Favoured Soul class removed. Everyone with it, can hit the RCR bot.


The reasons for why have been stated I think. The class is unsuitable for this server.

[Blame The Rogue]

i don't play a fs and have no personal stake here

a reason for not removing fs. 8yrs in. 8yrs. that's a bit late to come in and tell someone that their class and character and rp are no longer valid

some players have rped them well. they have. i've seen it. and i've also seen the same players get treated poorly because their class had more power than others. i've seen characters refused entry into holy orders/guilds because they are FSs. a policy of no FSs seemed to become common place, and some wonder why FS rp has suffered?

i recall one very good rper in particular. they loved the rp of the class, but also told me oocly they felt guilty that it was overpowered. they also told me about how they had to go out and form their own divine guild because current guilds wouldn't accept FSs

keep the class. tone the class down

[Garn Greymoon]

Favored soul is my main character so I'm highly opposed to it being removed. Myself being a newer player (4 months now on server) why is everyone stating it as OP?

If we are comparing apples to apples what clerics get heavy armor and 2 domains which can be considered quite powerful as well.

FS is dnds equivalent to the sorcerer in terms of a divine caster. If we are talkING EDM then adjust that feat specifically as from what I've road in the build forums every other player seems to have that feat for its OPness.

[matelener]

If we compare wizards and sorceress then we can learn that the latter have to pay for spontenous spellcasting (and an increased spell/day limit) by:

- Knowing a very limited number of spells
- Not having any class feats except Summon Familiar

On the other hand, Favored souls, in comparison to clerics, are way better off:

- They have a huge selection of spells
- They gain plenty of class feats (Some even incorrectly allow to pick epic spells)
- Have high saves

All that, at the cost of Heavy Armor Proficiency, access to two Domains and stat split that's used to synergize with EDM anyway.

In my opinion, removal of the current class implementation and then remaking it with new lore and new class features/mechanics is an okay-ish course of action. However, what I would really like to see is a solid nerf to divine spells which will affect clerics that are also over the top:

- Divine Power -
Consider removing it and replacing with a new spell that gives an AB bonus scaling up to +5, for example. This way High BAB divine PRCs will have merit.

- Death ward -
Shouldn't prevent ability drain, it's an nwn2 bug!

- Stonebody and Freedom of movement / Death Ward combo -
Destroy that combo. You want plenty of powerful immunities and 10/adamantine unlimited DR? Pay for it with movement speed and dexterity drain.

[Thorsson]

Just rename it Aaaaargh! Soul and give them a visible effect like with Genasi, like a brown halo, which increases to double size if they take EDM. Then anyone who wants to be an Aaaaargh! Soul is free to do so, and those that want to avoid Aaaaargh! Souls can also do so.

Result!

[Karond]

Please though, someone list to me the positive contributions of the FvS class to either the mechanical side of the game or to the RP side of the game, what do they have/do that's unique/niche/not-overlapping?

Spontaneous cleric casting. The wizard spellbook has one memorizing and one spontaneous class. As does the druid spellbook. As does the cleric spellbook. Removing FS takes that away.

It's just the optimal build would now be a strength-based divine gish with IPA instead of a EDM FS/Cleric. Or you could just min/max hardcore and still be an EDM FS/Cleric. So nothing changes ... much.

Well, it changes enough. STR clerics aren't that popular, and neither is STR FS. It's a rather good build though, but it is not the EDM FS. EDM Cleric still remains, but they seem relatively fine. The act of getting EDM mostly on clerics opens up some ways for how to rebrand the FS class, but that's more the realm of the DMs to come up with a name replacement etc. if that path is taken

[Garn Greymoon]

Alright but FS gets linoted spells as well similar to a sorc. Once you pick your selection thats it.

Also spell dc is based off of wisdom...so if your playing a pure caster that suffers.

Lastly I want to point out that the majority if complaints ate from EDM. I suggest looking at that feat by either ha ING a higher pre req for it or lowering the bonus mod contributing to the damage.

Sorry for any typos (mobile)

[Steve]

Spontaneous cleric casting. The wizard spellbook has one memorizing and one spontaneous class. As does the druid spellbook. As does the cleric spellbook. Removing FS takes that away.

Then, with this point, then it seems better to leave FS as CHA for spells (like sorcerer). As then it is a special type of RP where CHARISMA —and all the Ability entails—determines the divine casting ability, as well as the RP of the Class.

Though I still stay make it a PrC and be happy.

[Calodan]

No worries for all the FvS' out there if they get banned or nerfed you may come to Kory who will pray for revenge for you!

[LISA100595]

i don't play a fs and have no personal stake here

a reason for not removing fs. 8yrs in. 8yrs. that's a bit late to come in and tell someone that their class and character and rp are no longer valid

some players have rped them well. they have. i've seen it. and i've also seen the same players get treated poorly because their class had more power than others. i've seen characters refused entry into holy orders/guilds because they are FSs. a policy of no FSs seemed to become common place, and some wonder why FS rp has suffered?

i recall one very good rper in particular. they loved the rp of the class, but also told me oocly they felt guilty that it was overpowered. they also told me about how they had to go out and form their own divine guild because current guilds wouldn't accept FSs

Should have sent him to the OSR We have Fighters, Monks, Druids, FavoredSouls, Spirit Shaman, Clerics, Paladins, Rangers, Wizards, Sorcerers, Rogues, Combo's etc.

But I agree, I have witnessed plenty who RP the class properly and do not go around Pwning everyone or everything.