Orc Class

[aaron22]

the savage build is good. this is an example that the PrC doesnt need to be complicated to be helpful.

even this would be something with consideration and it is totally made up...

Orc Battle Master
Reqs: Orc/Half-Orc, Power attack, Blindfight, Weapon Focus

1: Feat, Bonus Feat
2: Feat
3: Feat
4: Feat
5: Feat, Bonus Feat

[chad878262]

the savage build is good. this is an example that the PrC doesnt need to be complicated to be helpful.

even this would be something with consideration and it is totally made up...

Orc Battle Master
Reqs: Orc/Half-Orc, Power attack, Blindfight, Weapon Focus

1: Feat, Bonus Feat
2: Feat
3: Feat
4: Feat
5: Feat, Bonus Feat

7 Feats in 5 levels? that's a bit much... Maybe at 1, 3 and 5 would be ok.

Regarding Orc Savage I'd say no... Can you imagine an Orc with a Keen Scimitar doing 9d12 on a crit? Plus for 5 levels even if the improved crit multiplier doesn't stack going to WM 7 would make that keen scimitar crit on a 12 or higher with a x3 multiplier and all that bonus damage (F12/WM8/FB5/OS5 or F14/R4/WM7/OS5)... It is too much, but I do like the idea. I would just go maybe 1d6 crit at 1, 2d6 at 3 and 2d8 at 5 and would also make it so you can't be an orc savage and a Weapon Master. Last thing, I wouldn't give them free overwhelming critical, maybe give them Great Cleave or IPA for free instead.

[aaron22]

7 Feats in 5 levels? that's a bit much... Maybe at 1, 3 and 5 would be ok.

this is only 1 more than a fighter would get and no xp penalty but has a 3 feat req?

and it was just an example that it doesnt need to be complicated to be desirable.

Regarding Orc Savage I'd say no... Can you imagine an Orc with a Keen Scimitar doing 9d12 on a crit? Plus for 5 levels even if the improved crit multiplier doesn't stack going to WM 7 would make that keen scimitar crit on a 12 or higher with a x3 multiplier and all that bonus damage (F12/WM8/FB5/OS5 or F14/R4/WM7/OS5)... It is too much, but I do like the idea. I would just go maybe 1d6 crit at 1, 2d6 at 3 and 2d8 at 5 and would also make it so you can't be an orc savage and a Weapon Master. Last thing, I wouldn't give them free overwhelming critical, maybe give them Great Cleave or IPA for free instead.

the savage build is not a world beater. its got synergy with WM. FB and monk builds would benefit from this build. really any melee build would benefit from mass crit bonuses. would like to see long bow added to the ranged to imply that they use bows that utilize their strength to increase pull and arrow size/velocity.

[chad878262]

this is only 1 more than a fighter would get and no xp penalty but has a 3 feat req?

and it was just an example that it doesnt need to be complicated to be desirable.

But it is 5 more than what a Divine Champion gets for the same investment of levels, though it does require 2 more feats. It should be compared to PRC's, because that is what it is. Fighter is a base class and should not really be compared to a PRC. Bonus Feats at 1, 3 and 5 plus a couple of other benefits unique to the class at 2 and 4 would probably work better... That said, I get it, was just an example so I'll say no more.

the savage build is not a world beater. its got synergy with WM. FB and monk builds would benefit from this build. really any melee build would benefit from mass crit bonuses. would like to see long bow added to the ranged to imply that they use bows that utilize their strength to increase pull and arrow size/velocity.

Mixed with WM to make the crit range ridiculously low and Rogue in order to use EW to land and confirm the crits the Savage Orc PRC suggested would be able to essentially land more crits than what a sneak lands sneak attacks using HiPS. Heck, forget STR, make a 25 DEX Kukri wielding weapon master that crits for 9d12 on a roll of 12 or better! With 12 APR and Expose Weakness to drop AC it would be nearing 1,000 damage per round easily. It would have the same weakness as any Weapon Master, but against non crit-immune enemies it would be even more powerful than it already is today.

[aaron22]

i can see that chad. i have never made a WM, so i do not know the advantage/disadvantage of the PrC nor the numbers they reflect.
well, would it still be a good class with only it being unable to be taken with WM?

[chad878262]

sure, it could still crit fairly often with taking improved critical or using a keen wand... However, by avoiding the allowance of reducing crit range to making 40% of hits in to crits it balances well. I also think bonus crit damage is fine, just not as much as it was offering. It's actually a neat idea IMO, it just needs to not become 'the' PRC to take, which it would be in the original form. By avoiding WM multi-classing it would still be a powerful PRC to mix with Frenzied Berserker and I also like it because it synergizes with both Fighter and Barbarian base classes. I haven't thought about it in depth enough, but other than the few changes I mentioned I like it just as well as the EoG, though EoG has more lore to it which should be considered. If nothing else, perhaps some of the abilities from Savage could be added to EoG to make up for the fact that it doesn't progress rage.

[Selande]

My original idea for Orc Savage was for axes only anyways.
Battleaxe, Greataxe, Dwarven waraxe, throwing axe, and handaxe.
I didn't want to restrict the class a ton because leaving it open to other options helps it get use.

If your greatest concern is it scaling with weaponmaster, it can be restricted from weaponmaster. I think most orc savage builds would be wasting their potential taking weaponmaster though.

And as with every other crit build, anything crit immune will decimate it.



Oh, and massive/overwhelming crits aren't multiplied on critical hits btw. It's added after the multiplier. So it's not really that huge of a damage increase.



Elves get magic and archery stuff. Dwarves get dwarven defender. Orcs should get brute melee presence.

[7threalm]

yes where are the orc double-axes, orcs make the best axes

I would make a 4 axe duel welding now thats orc

[chad878262]

Oh, and massive/overwhelming crits aren't multiplied on critical hits btw. It's added after the multiplier. So it's not really that huge of a damage increase.

Are you sure about this? I know that Overwhelming Critical doesn't multiply, but I am pretty sure that Massive Critical does... I recall DM Bloodlust doing a trivia game once and that was one of the questions. I recall that the massive crit property on a weapon is multiplied, so if a class was given that ability I would think it would also multiply. If it doesn't then I would have much less concern about it. Thanks for the clarification if so!

[Selande]

Donno.
Ask QC.

[chad878262]

Donno.
Ask QC.

Lol! Not sure I can test this as we don't currently have a class that gets massive crit. If there is a DM online tomorrow I can see if they can help me test it though...if not we'll just have to wonder.

[Calodan]

Oh, and massive/overwhelming crits aren't multiplied on critical hits btw. It's added after the multiplier. So it's not really that huge of a damage increase.

Are you sure about this? I know that Overwhelming Critical doesn't multiply, but I am pretty sure that Massive Critical does... I recall DM Bloodlust doing a trivia game once and that was one of the questions. I recall that the massive crit property on a weapon is multiplied, so if a class was given that ability I would think it would also multiply. If it doesn't then I would have much less concern about it. Thanks for the clarification if so!

Massive crits on weapons are not applied before the multiply. It is applied after the crit multi. My F/FB has a axe with 2d8 Massive Crits and his base damage per hit is 40-50 and he does on average crit 130-150 which means that the massive crit is not applied before the X3 multiplier.

[chad878262]

Thanks man, saves me the trouble!

[Selande]

Read a report that massive crits on weapons don't stack with anything feat-based either. Meaning Overwhelming criticals wouldn't even help.

Whatever. You can see the point of the class concept I'm trying to make anyways.

If it needs polishing, I have plenty of ideas. Suggested that quickie cuz it'd be super easy to make.

[AlwaysSummer Day]

yes where are the orc double-axes, orcs make the best axes

HERETIC!