Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Sounds very cool, I hope the 100% RCR lasts long enough to have the option to implement these feats in our existing builds.

Planehopper wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:13 pm Able learner is ok of you only ever want to be half-skilled in something.

This is more to open the door to characters that want to be fully skilled in something they otherwise could not be.

Say you wanted to make a diplomatic fighter, or a sorcerer skilled in survival.

It really is only intended to open up RP angles for builds that may otherwise force a dip into a irrelevant class or pro. More options.

The first thing we had in mind discussing this were rp skills, not mechanical advantage. Best fisherman being a sorcerer and best herbalist being barbarian, because it's their hobby and backstory. Thus, we actually vague about opening those feats for hide/ms etc skills, cause it is, in first place, an opportunity for better backstories, hobbies and having legal right for your PC to be an expert in their unusual to their class field.
So yeah, just what Planehopper said. You will be able to have more diversity for your PCs, but please, let us not see it only as "i can get this class now with feat investment". Well yeah, but our intention is to enrich RP rather than add more options for powerbuilding.

Do you have an actual list of skills that you are set upon?

Terankar wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:07 pm Do you have an actual list of skills that you are set upon?

But, it's right in the post Rhifox made:
Everything except for Heal, Hide, MS, Spot, Listen, Spellcraft, Taunt, Tumble, and UMD.

We will come up to discuss these, but Spellcraft and UMD are hard no and Tumble is still debated.

EasternCheesE wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:15 pm

Terankar wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:07 pm Do you have an actual list of skills that you are set upon?

But, it's right in the post Rhifox made:
Everything except for Heal, Hide, MS, Spot, Listen, Spellcraft, Taunt, Tumble, and UMD.

We will come up to discuss these, but Spellcraft and UMD are hard no and Tumble is still debated.

Alright, I see that. It wasn't blatantly obvious to me, as I would have considered them in each category to be much outlined.

Such as Appraise is highly impactful for your game as a utility skill and the same for lore arcana.

I like the idea of opening up certain skills to more classes through investment.

Can we assume that Cosmopolitan picks will only be available on General Feat picks?
Otherwise an Intelligence stacking Fighter might suddenly become a better sage than any wizard/monk/rogue could ever be.

I don't see why it would be spontaneously added to the Fighter feat list.

And would a fighter with no class perks really be superior to a rogue or mage who get those skills and don't need to trade-off their class abilities and spells?
(Besides, Monks and Fighters get the same # of skill points, and Monk is much more stat reliant to begin with)

While appraise being good, solely having 33 points in it for the cost of feat will surely make one's prices better, but one will never compare with specialized appraiser builds.

zhazz wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:09 am I like the idea of opening up certain skills to more classes through investment.

Can we assume that Cosmopolitan picks will only be available on General Feat picks?
Otherwise an Intelligence stacking Fighter might suddenly become a better sage than any wizard/monk/rogue could ever be.

What made you think they can even appear in fighter bonus feats? They are not combat related, so why should they even be there?

EasternCheesE wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:15 am

zhazz wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:09 am I like the idea of opening up certain skills to more classes through investment.

Can we assume that Cosmopolitan picks will only be available on General Feat picks?
Otherwise an Intelligence stacking Fighter might suddenly become a better sage than any wizard/monk/rogue could ever be.

What made you think they can even appear in fighter bonus feats? They are not combat related, so why should they even be there?

Because NWN2 is a buggy mess?

For them to be in the fighter bonus feat list would require manually adding them to the fighter feat 2da. So no, they won't be on the fighter bonus feat list. Though fighters will certainly still have more feats to spare on them than other classes, anyway.

zhazz wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:01 am

EasternCheesE wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:15 am

zhazz wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:09 am I like the idea of opening up certain skills to more classes through investment.

Can we assume that Cosmopolitan picks will only be available on General Feat picks?
Otherwise an Intelligence stacking Fighter might suddenly become a better sage than any wizard/monk/rogue could ever be.

What made you think they can even appear in fighter bonus feats? They are not combat related, so why should they even be there?

Because NWN2 is a buggy mess?

Very fair point, but you are wrong on this specific case xD
As Rhifox said, they won't appear in fighter bonus list

Why is tumble highly debated?

It is a 2 AC bonus for 1 feat and 10 more skill points that needs to be invested.

You would still need to have enough skill points to get it, so the investment kinda suits the bill.

I would argue that getting more RP skills, it has a higher effect on your character since the RP part is more important.

Terankar wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:45 am Why is tumble highly debated?

It is a 2 AC bonus for 1 feat and 10 more skill points that needs to be invested.

You would still need to have enough skill points to get it, so the investment kinda suits the bill.

I would argue that getting more RP skills, it has a higher effect on your character since the RP part is more important.

2 AC is 10% less chance you take that 50 dmg blow. For some underpowered classes and builds, it'd suite fine. But it opens window for straight mechanical benefits in certain builds that have to dip into tumble class, making them even stronger. The idea behind this feat line is not to provide people with even stronger mechanical opportunities, but to allow them to have more customization to their PC background/story which is not directly related to make them stronger in grinding. RP skills do not give PC any mechanical power, it's all about DM events and RP intercations between players.
Just right now (even though my PC has tumble). I sit at 44 AC buffed as rogue hipster. I get hit by trolls quite often, but it's still manageable (they have about 32 AB). Every time i use my shield brouch (which takes me to 48 AC), i become almost invincible to them. When we speak, it may sound like "it's just 2 AC vs 44 AC you already have", but no, in fact, when your PC sits at your AC/mob AB being a matter of mob rolls, 10% more chance to avoid being hit is huge cause we have to compare to 1d20 attack rolls mobs make. Just imagine a non-tumble class that has 44 AC and then suddenly become able to make it 46. In many CR-appropriate areas, it's quite big difference in survivability.

EasternCheesE wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:07 am

Terankar wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:45 am Why is tumble highly debated?

It is a 2 AC bonus for 1 feat and 10 more skill points that needs to be invested.

You would still need to have enough skill points to get it, so the investment kinda suits the bill.

I would argue that getting more RP skills, it has a higher effect on your character since the RP part is more important.

2 AC is 10% less chance you take that 50 dmg blow. For some underpowered classes and builds, it'd suite fine. But it opens window for straight mechanical benefits in certain builds that have to dip into tumble class, making them even stronger. The idea behind this feat line is not to provide people with even stronger mechanical opportunities, but to allow them to have more customization to their PC background/story which is not directly related to make them stronger in grinding. RP skills do not give PC any mechanical power, it's all about DM events and RP intercations between players.

Some extremely powerful builds are also currently unavailable on the server, due to the 3b20 rule in combination with cross-class skills. If e.g. Tumble (and some others) were to become available as class skills, by investing a single feat, then the restrictions imposed by the 3b20 rule become easier to mitigate. Even without the 3b20 mitigation, it will also mess up pre-epic class balance.