Make Warlock application only

[Deathgrowl]

Question, what is Candlekeep's stance on Warlocks? Could they be offered schooling there?

Candlekeep is not an academy. It's a monastery and a library. Only monks get actual training there.

Candlekeep doesn't have any particular stance on warlocks otherwise. Currently a Scribe and a Reader are warlocks. That said, warlocks, like anyone else, need to show a very keen interest in general lore and the protection of such to become members. They also need to show they can be reliable as far as the political neutrality goes and stuff like that.

[Blunkanthrust]

How many of you people complaining about Warlocks actually PLAY a Warlock toon?

The complaints are primarily people not following the lore, other classes are very heavily lore based and there are requirements to know about that lore. I don't see why people are freaking out now there is a suggestion that people who play warlocks do a little research, to fit the setting.

[DM Mouse]

The only recent officially lodged complaints are about the devil-serving kind of Warlocks being too evil.

[stevebarracuda]

All players using any and all classes should do a little research!

I thought the subject was "make Warlocks application only," which if would be done, should also apply to Paladins, Clerics, Favored Souls, Druids, DsMs, Monks, Elves, dwarves, halflings, planetouched...etc etc.

[Servin]

I think Steve just made many supporters of the idea to change their minds

[Passiflora]

Maecius already stated that they won't be application only, and that it probably won't happen to any base class ever.

The things that might happen is finding ways to enhence the fun by adding information about lore, like the 'feat' idea of TheVoid, or anything that might comes up.

No one needs to feel attacked or anything. (-:

[Knightmare]

I concur - education is the way forward.

[c2k]

well, if there is a feat for Warlocks, I think something should be required for Tieflings and Aasimar in general. There are way too much of them running around.

[TheVoid]

Maecius already stated that they won't be application only, and that it probably won't happen to any base class ever.

The things that might happen is finding ways to enhence the fun by adding information about lore, like the 'feat' idea of TheVoid, or anything that might comes up.

No one needs to feel attacked or anything. (-:

Exactly, I also understand that education applies to all things content related not just one particular class. However, we have found that warlocks and in some ways; divine classes are often the most misunderstood base class content due to the lack of reference materials we have on this forum. Knightmare's antecdotes on warlocks is very very useful for players and DMs alike, it is a long read but imagine having that summarized IG with a feat taken at character creation?

Or giving warlocks an item in their inventory that generates depending on what pact they have chosen, like a copy of their signed pact and the generic terms, if we want to get fancy. I do understand that this is not comprehensive to all warlock creation stories but just like not all gods support paladins, their should be some criteria we should set aside for players to be guided with. Otherwise, the expectations become confusing, vague, and frustrating. Especially when the individual character does not match or come even close to the overall expectations of the staff, the community, and canon lore.

Again guidelines are not rules, they are their to educate not forcifully assimilate players into a particular mold or behavior. Having more IG reference materials is never a bad thing, it is always to the benefit of all players just like having the PvP rules book in your inventory. It tells the player what the base expectations are and gives them an overall impression to what may or may not be acceptable based on the norms of the PW. It's not a tool to lock down your creativity, it is a tool to guide your creativity to something that will have a better chance of succeeding in this particular PW. The goal as always is too reduce frustration while hopefully increasing enjoyment of the experience for all not just one group or another.

[stevebarracuda]

Or giving warlocks an item in their inventory that generates depending on what pact they have chosen, like a copy of their signed pact and the generic terms, if we want to get fancy. I do understand that this is not comprehensive to all warlock creation stories but just like not all gods support paladins, their should be some criteria we should set aside for players to be guided with.

A decent middle ground solution, however, what about "odd" or "creative" uses of the Warlock pact? There is Lore-based text that supports a PCs warlock power could derive from their lineage just as much as a conscious pact:

Like sorcerers many warlocks come from a supernatural bloodline and it has been said that warlocks are "born, not made." This is not true for all warlocks, though many do indeed come from fiendish bloodlines. Those that aren't are still often touched by destiny in some special way, sought out by powerful extraplanar forces as tools and minions, altering their soul and giving them supernatural abilities beyond the ken of most mortals.[6]

If Warlocks are guided to better roleplay, and given some form of IG Guide Sheet and Pact sheet, then lets also do this for Paladins and Clerics, probably Favored Souls and Druids as well. That would be balanced in approach.

[mrieder79]

Easy to read and accessible reference materials for the more RP intensive classes are a fantastic idea. It doesn't need to be long - probably just a few paragraphs to give the general guildelines for the class. It should be easy for developers to implement and easy for players - especially new ones - to read.

[WeWhoEat]

I do actually think feats chosen at warlock level one would be a great way to go about it, at least in terms of the source of the magic.


Fey Pact (Fey)
Devil Pact (Infernal)
Demon Pact (Dark)
Planetouched Origins*

*For those who do not use a Pact but instead use the power of their extraplanar blood, you would need a feat option, but it would require Planestouched race, Fey Heritage, or Fiendish Heritage as a prerequisite.

[mrieder79]

Would the feat simply consist of an explanation of the nature of the class and give RP pointers? If yes, then this would also be a good idea. Either way I think would be very instrumental in improving RP. The feat idea is neat because it presents different types of power.

[TheVoid]

@ Steve

Divine classes do have some point of reference because of the domains they must choose need to adhere to the one's their deity has dominion over. Paladin's can only choose from a few select gods that support paladin classes.

So this is already filtered at character creation. It gives the player the impression that if he/she chooses a paladin well then he needs to pick from a list of god's named: Torm, Tyr, helm, etc... And each deity has a description on what they are about.

This would be the same as a pact feat. Which gives the warlock pacts to choose from. Not all packs are supported, the vague ones may have to be eliminated same with the ones that do not pertain to the world setting like Star Pacts etc... Limiting but giving range also helps, again focus and guide the player to at least come close to meeting the overall expectations of the community, setting, and staff regarding the class they have chosen. It does not force or confine you anymore than a paladin being limited to set number of gods and alignment selection which imo is even more limiting than a range of pact feats offered at character creation for a warlock.

@Mrieder79
The feat would give and explanation of the type of pact signed or made. Whether it is a pact insidious, a faustian pact, fey pact etc... which ever pacts the staff and WARLOCK players/enthusiasts agree upon would be appropriate for this setting. For instance, a feat can also be made functional.

IE: a faustian pact feat is the only way to acheive or unlock Hellfire warlock, depending also on the archdevil you choose, which would have to be limited to Mephistopheles for OBVIOUS reasons that would not make a lore fanatics head explode with rage.

It is suprising that the OC never considered these things and treated warlocks as some generic blasting caster with little basis on what their role is. The irony is, that one the key characters in the OC was a very thought out and well written character that made pacts to acheive his power.... Why they did not include those story elements in the actual game play for the class is really disappointing.

Education is the way, enlighten people and challenge them instead of taking things away.

[mrieder79]

IE: a faustian pact feat is the only way to acheive or unlock Hellfire warlock, depending also on the archdevil you choose, which would have to be limited to Mephistopheles for OBVIOUS reasons that would not make a lore fanatics head explode with rage.

It is suprising that the OC never considered these things and treated warlocks as some generic blasting caster with little basis on what their role is. The irony is, that one the key characters in the OC was a very thought out and well written character that made pacts to acheive his power.... Why they did not include those story elements in the actual game play for the class is really disappointing.

This is a very good idea because before this thread I certainly didn't know about warlocks obtaining their powers through pacts. Everything I knew about them was from the NWN2 handbook description which seemed to suggest to me that the magical powers they had came from their blood or heritage or something.

I think the feat idea would really be helpful and instrumental.