Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

chambordini wrote:*Rubs the magic lamp* "Oh mighty Arkanis! I summon you..."

So I've heard that as far as druids/rangers/clerics with animal domain, the animal companion is an animal/beast of Toril, as in a being that the character befriended/created some sort of bond with. Please correct me if there's anything wrong here.
But my question is this: where do 'summon spell' animals/beasts come from when the spell is cast? Is it from some outer plane of existence or some such?
Could you elaborate on this or perhaps link me a source or the name of one where I might find reliable information to boost the accuracy of the portrayal of a character that I have in development? (namely a druid thaumaturge)

Thanks. Long may rule the Gnomocracy.

Just when I get into the bath there is a rub of the lamp...

A summons spell does indeed draw upon the plane/area where the creature being summoned exists OR it brings them from another more local area depending on the nature of a summons. For example, a Balor does not exist "naturally" on Toril, so one would be brought from whichever plane the Balor is on at the time - my thinking here would be that for some reason the Balor would be ABLE to be summoned (through some binding magic, knowing its true name, etc etc.) For something like summonding undead, I would say it would again be similar only local -i.e. the same skeleton is summoned everytime until slain or dispelled.

A good reference that I can give you is how RA Salvatore created Drizzt's panter figurine: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Guenhwyvar which talks about how a creature can be summoned through magic (in this case an item rather than a spell) but I would assume the principals are basically the same.

Montaron Alagondar wrote:Could you verify if the Dungeon Masters on this server are still using the AD&D material for server lore instead of the 3rd edition material?

(2nd edition material is closer to the server time line, it is more detailed, ect.

Lore =|= Game Rules.)

Question brought forth by this thread: http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&p=477014#p477014

From the thread, Well, one could argue that it is not part of the "lore" but rather game mechanics.[/quote]

I think this is the crux of the argument.

Lore has more to do with chronology (i.e. DR timeline) and the major players and events within it. Think of lore as the period, setting and characters for a book.

Rules are different. When we apply rules in the game, some of them are replacing older rules, some of them are enhancing or clairfying them, and some just don't make sense anymore. Dungeons and Dragons has had several versions since it was first put out, and some rules have changed, some creatures modified, added, or been removed over the years. Reverting to older rules, or using older sourcebooks does not necessarily negate or change the lore of the server though.

Key points to remember:

1. There is a lot of reference material out there, and not all of it is customized to FR.
2. The symantics of NWN2 is limited by what is available, what we want to introduce, what we DON'T want in our server, and the interpretations the dev and dm teams take when adding content that hass lore or rules implications.
3. WOTC or other people who write stories/timelines/adventures or introduce new matierial don't always intend it to be "stackable" with respect to being a continuation to over-all FR lore or game play. Sometimes it is just stand-alone material.
4. The game was intended for dm's and players alike to modify lore and rules to suit their gameplay. Obviously, the further we deviate from what would be considered "core" rules or lore the more different the game is going to be, but that is part of the beauty of the game is that we can intruduce our own.

If we HAD TO include or incorporate ALL of the reference material that exisists from version to version of this game I don't think anyone would be able to do it. There is a) too much stuff out there, and b) some of it contradicts older rules/lore items. In terms of what I am getting from this thread, if you are playing a Paly, have a great bio and back story, interpret your relationship with your god in light of that and those you interract with (i.e. if you are a member of a guild you will have to agree/subscribe to the guilds tennets, codes, etc.) and RP it out. Handbooks, reference guides, even edition rules are helpful resources in making and playing your character but the only restictions should be on what NWN2 game content allows, what our server rules say about game play, items, etc. and server history. Are there going to be differences in opinion? Yes! That is one of the things that make playing this game so much fun is that we can do what we are doing right here and talk about how we see how things should be played. Lore and rules are necessary so that we knnow what the framework is that we can play the game in, but sometimes too much definition disables rather than clarifies.

Does it matter if we play v2 rules or v3.5 rules? I would say it would depend on the rule. As the DR date has progressed well into the future of where we are now, there is little, older source material being introduced from a lore perspective other than what we generate ourselves. If, years ago, we interpreted some rules based on an older version of the game, it does not mean that there cannot have been discussion and evolution of the rules since - the server rules are always being looked at by the dm team to make sure that they provide the clarity players need to be able to interract with each other and we make periodic changes when we find things are not working, or if some fine tuning is needed.

If there is a specific rule that needs clarification, or if you are wondering if you can use lore found in older sourcebooks or previous editions concerning a specific character or situation, drop anyone of us a line and we'll talk about it.

Ark

can you tell me what dose La Magra means

Lockonnow wrote:can you tell me what dose La Magra means

Depends on the context:

1. "The Magra is a 62 kilometres (39 mi) long river of Northern Italy, which runs through Pontremoli, Filattiera, Villafranca in Lunigiana and Aulla in the province of Massa-Carrara (Tuscany); Santo Stefano di Magra, Vezzano Ligure, Arcola, Sarzana and Ameglia in the province of La Spezia (Liguria).In Roman times it was known as the Macra and marked the eastern boundary of the territory of Liguria.The river’s drainage basin occupies around 1,686 km². Its most important tributary is the Vara which joins the Magra from the right within the commune of Santo Stefano di Magra."

2. "La Magra is an all powerful ancient blood god. He is the Vampire god and is noted in the Vampire Bible. La Magra is older than Drake because he was the first vampire he created. La Magra can only be summoned through a special ritual that involves Blade's blood. He was later absorbed by Deacon Frost until Frost was killed by Blade. (This is also depicted in the original Blade comic books - #7 of the series which introduced the concept of the Blood God (unknown name) from the comic book into the first movie. The ritual differs that of the movie but not a lot of the original concept has been changed was the vessel for La Magra at the climax of the first Blade film.)"

see http://marvel.wikia.com/La_Magra_(Earth-26320)

3. La Marga (1998) This short documentary, which is featured on the Blade (1998) DVD, shows us the original ending to the film and an explanation as to why it is not in the final film.

DM Arkanis wrote:
1. "The Magra is a 62 kilometres (39 mi) long river of Northern Italy, which runs through Pontremoli, Filattiera, Villafranca in Lunigiana and Aulla in the province of Massa-Carrara (Tuscany); Santo Stefano di Magra, Vezzano Ligure, Arcola, Sarzana and Ameglia in the province of La Spezia (Liguria).In Roman times it was known as the Macra and marked the eastern boundary of the territory of Liguria.The river’s drainage basin occupies around 1,686 km². Its most important tributary is the Vara which joins the Magra from the right within the commune of Santo Stefano di Magra."

Hey, I know that river! I used to fish and swim in it when I was a kid!

Still no answer on the favored soul question, is our oracle of sageness stumped?

yes but where dose this La Magra word came from any mythology? dose it mean ancient blood god on any langauage ?

Storm Munin wrote:Still no answer on the favored soul question, is our oracle of sageness stumped?

Sorry, while I am seldom stumped I do have a bad memory and short attention span... *SQUIRREL!* Please, leave an only man to his fantasies and Ask Arkanis again...

Darksider_war wrote:

DM Arkanis wrote:
1. "The Magra is a 62 kilometres (39 mi) long river of Northern Italy, which runs through Pontremoli, Filattiera, Villafranca in Lunigiana and Aulla in the province of Massa-Carrara (Tuscany); Santo Stefano di Magra, Vezzano Ligure, Arcola, Sarzana and Ameglia in the province of La Spezia (Liguria).In Roman times it was known as the Macra and marked the eastern boundary of the territory of Liguria.The river’s drainage basin occupies around 1,686 km². Its most important tributary is the Vara which joins the Magra from the right within the commune of Santo Stefano di Magra."

Hey, I know that river! I used to fish and swim in it when I was a kid!

Here's to us! I had hoped that comment would resonnate. Peace

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaOnipj3yc0

Storm Munin wrote:What happens to a favored soul when its liege deity is killed?

More specifically:
If a deity is smoked, would that affect its favored souls ability to cast spells in any way?

Here:

Lockonnow wrote:yes but where dose this La Magra word came from any mythology? dose it mean ancient blood god on any langauage ?

*cracks knuckles and calls Dr. Laura, PhD in Ancient Cultures, Anthropology and Mythology/Philosophy ((I cant remember which))* - yes, she has three doctorate degrees... and now apparently I have to take her out for a nice supper and talk about stuff that I find totally uninteresting... entemology for example, I mean, what does she KNOW about it? Nothing, right? She just wants to BUG me... lol! ok pun intended... but I digress)

Bottom line - there is nothing in ancient mythology with this spelling - "Marga" is an ancient philosophy in Buddism, but the spelling is obviously different... As an adjective it means 1.lean, lank, meager, fleshless, 2. to lose weight or become thin, which is why I think whomever in comic-land/Hollywood thought it would be great for a vampire.

Another interesting reference I found: "Bocca di Magra is a small center in the province of La Spezia, born as fishermen village it is abandoned on the right riverside of the homonym river, in front of Fiumaretta. In the Suburb are preserved the architectural ruins of a villa that is considered an important historical and artistic testimony . Bocca di Magra is well-known because it has been a place where writers and intellectuals met, such as Eugenio Montale, Giulio Einaudi, Cesare Pavese and more others. It has been inserted in the routes of the Val di Magra and Terra di Luni cultural Park. The economic resources of Bocca di Magra are represented by the traditional fishing activities (it is possible to purchase the fishes directly from the fishermen on the dock, that stop near their fishing-boats), from tourism, as well as from the presence of different docks dedicated to the yatching and ferries that can help you reaching the small inlets and the hidden little beaches, close to places like Lerici, Portovenere and the Five Lands (Punta Bianca with her white rock-cliffs and Punta Corvo). A spectacular coast road that takes you to Lerici crosses first Montemarcello, that overlooks both the Gulf of La Spezia and Val di Magra, and it allows you to admire a really beautiful panorama of the ligurian coast. You can also enjoy the view of a steep stairway to the famous beach of Punta Corvo."

Think this one has been wrung-dry.

Back to my bath.

Ark

Alezka Silverstone wrote:

Storm Munin wrote:What happens to a favored soul when its liege deity is killed?

More specifically:
If a deity is smoked, would that affect its favored souls ability to cast spells in any way?

Here:

*takes out reading glasses and shuffles into library that makes Candlekeep look like a corner bookstore*

OK. If a diety is killed all of the faithful lose their connection to it. We saw (will be seeing...) this in the Time of Troubles. The thing is: a) dieties being killed is rare, and b) their portfolio is usually taken up by another god. If you really want me to be specific, based on the link given, I see your character actually is not particular about which god they worship -seems to be two there *adjusts reading glasses*. Now, I think that Tempus wouldn't really give a hoot on a certain level about who worships him or not but on another level figure if their clergy were divided in their loyalties with other gods that maybe they are not worthy enough to begin with. Since one of the gods has not yet come into fruiting (DR time line wise) and the other (we know because we cheat and look ahead at lore) is alive and well and beating people up, I revent to my initial answer: if your god dies, you are no longer able to pray for/cast spells unless their portfolio is taken over by another deity, and you choose to accept and pray to that deity and get new spells that way.

NOW, if you question is about, "how the frak can I be a FS and my god die?" That is a different answer. Remember in the game that "gods" can die just like mortals do. Their powers (after the ToT) are dependent on the number of faithful that they have, and so their modus operendi becomes how to attract followers. Your god may indeed mark you as a FS from birth but they also may get smoked by another god in the course of your lifetime and you may be bereft of your connection. Does this mean a FS of a god who is killed is left godless and/or no longer a FS? Not necessarily. The god which takes over the portfolio (usually the god who does the killing of the old god) generally accepts the faithful (as this increases their power as per number of worshippers) would (logically) extend to the FS of the old god, the same privaledges, albeit perhaps with some addendums/changes/alterations as befitting the "new" portfolio. Sometimes the new god expands on some traits and forgets about others that the old god was interested in. I think I would need a most specific example to give you exact details, but I think I answered, in general. Apologies for missing/forgetting this one - it is a good question.

"Mother, where are my slippers? And what did I do with my pipe...? Oh here it is. Jeopardy is on! The answer is, "Deuteronomy" oh no! He got it wrong! Mother? Mother!"

Ark

Was thinking more in the terms of a totally pissed of faithful favored soul laughing in the ursurpers face while casting true resurrection whatnot on the dead diety.

Thought that might be possible due to the natural spell casting. But it seems that base is covered?

In essence the former has the consequence that unless ALL faithful favored souls are dead, no god can be killed and expected to stay down.

Bane and Mystra found other means,.

To answer your question on details, though the deity is perhaps somewhat irrelevant for the original question, and explaining how the favored soul might be a fatal flaw in the possibility of the death of a god.

A little alternative story then:


The Elflord lounged in his bath savouring the sight of the darkskinned elven maids surrounding him. Eons had passed since he had last enjoyed their grace and beauty.
He sighed and closed his eyes, too long in truth.

Suddenly pain on a cosmic level racked his very being, instantly his eyes opened to bear witness to the lithe creature sitting by his side looking at him over her veil with steely grey eyes. Sparing a brief glance down their bodies his eyes widened as he saw a familiar blade stuck deep into his midriff, shadowflash.. but how..he looked up again.

The maid spoke in her melodous voice "Did you miss me father? at all."
Time stretched as the lord realized he was held in paralyzis.

" I could forgive you for your foregiveness at mother's betrayal, I even forgive how you allowed that pissant elf to sully my name and reputation. But stealing what is mine father? Really? Taking my portfolios.." He voice hardened "..and my people?" that I cannot forgive!

She stood and smoothly glided away to come to a pose a few steps in front of him. He could feel parts of his essence cross the span between them.

In a chilling tone she stated " If you my lord, can take all that is mine. Well, then I will take all that is ours!" With a thought a bow and arrow appeared in her hands. As she trained them on his broken heart she ended the monologue "Aim for the heart isnt that what you taught me when we roamed the planes together? This time I wont miss."

A tear ran down her ebony skin as the arrow pierced her father's heart, ending the life of Corellon, master of the seldarine court. As more of his essence poured into her, the black hair changed into silvery white again and a tall blade appeared at her waist. She was finally complete again... and so much..more.

With the powers taken from Corellon she could smite that inconsequencial ursurper Shevarash with a mere thought and her mother...
Her mother had it coming, Eilistraee grinned, how could the spinner of webs forget what she had let in by stealing from her portfolio? Lolth would soon see how aptly she had named her Lady Penitent.

"No." The voice, it couldnt be! Stunned she looked at the still transfixed corpse in front of her. "I will not allow this daughter and you will release your brother at once!" Another Corellon stood by the corpse now and the flow of essence to her stopped and began anew moving for the breathing Corellon. "As much as I despise what he became, he is my son."

Eilistraee contemplated the demand while Corellon continued "If you had a faithful servant given undeniable access to your spells, how many such servants do you think I have at my call? This was all for naught daughter." A weary sigh left his lips "I die and return again, it never ends does it?".


Bane and lately Mystra did return by somewhat the same means arguably.
Ie by placing part of their very being elsewhere for a time.

In essence a favored soul is a broken off part from a deity?
Thus the natural spell casting?
Thus it doesnt matter if some other deity picks up the fallens portfolio?

Storm Munin wrote:Was thinking more in the terms of a totally pissed of faithful favored soul laughing in the ursurpers face while casting true resurrection whatnot on the dead diety.

Thought that might be possible due to the natural spell casting. But it seems that base is covered?

In essence the former has the consequence that unless ALL faithful favored souls are dead, no god can be killed and expected to stay down.

Bane and Mystra found other means,.

OK I am not surewhere you found a reference to a FS being a "part" or having a part of the deity - here is the description I can find:

"The favored soul follows the path of the cleric but is able to channel divine power with surprising ease. She is able to perform the same tasks as her fellow divine spellcasters but with virtually no study. Favored souls cast their spells naturally, as much through force of personality as through study. Though this gives them extraordinary divine abilities no normal person could ever match, they see their gift as a call to action, and so in some ways may lag behind their more studious colleagues.

Favored souls cast divine spells by means of an innate connection rather than through laborious training and prayer, so their divine connection is natural rather than learned. Mortals who perform great services to deities, devoting their lives and work to the cause of their god or goddess, sometimes become the Chosen of that deity.

Being born a favored soul has both advantages and disadvantages. Like a cleric, a favored soul has access to her god's divine magic. Unlike a cleric, however, the magic of a favored soul is natural. As such, it is unlikely to be denied by her god. Because favored souls do not need to pray for their spells, deities don't need to approve or disapprove each and every incantation. This and the many divine powers of a favored soul make members of the class quite powerful. Despite these powers, favored souls are often hindered by a sense of inescapable destiny that surrounds their births. They didn't choose their paths and may not want anything to do with their religion. In this way, the powers of a favored soul can be a burden rather than a blessing."

Reading this, I would say that, "innate connection" does not mean that they are part-god or are infused by the god and the death of the god would not be contingent on all the FS's of that god also being dead. The second their god dies the connection between the two would be severed and the FS's ability to innately cast clerical magic (that had been granted from that god) would also vanish. I think it would be a lot like always having the ability to read minds and then suddenly lose it, for example. There would be a void there and a FS would definitely have a hard time losing a connection they had (potentially) since birth.